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  1. #79
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    I can see the government not wanting people to operate an unlicensed lemonade stand because of the food. You can get people sick making a jar of lemonade if you are not carefull.

    They throw out the kid and the lemonade story but they forget the hundreds of thousands of yard sales that go on day after day in america and the flea markets.....

    My sister used to make a fortune at the flea market and ebay. She would go to yard sales and buy old logo t shirts and old womens purses and such and would market them on ebay as "vintage".... she was making a couple of grand a month off this and paid no taxes whatsoever....... no government regulation.....nothing......

    Yes, the little kid with the lemonade stand shut down by big government is a real tear jerker..... but for each kid out here getting his lemonade stand stomped down into the ground by a bunch of nazi stormtroopers.....there are people making a good living out here at flea markets and ebay and the government doesnt do a damn thing to regulate or stop them.

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    However, I am not part of what you refer to as a dishonest medical/insurance mess... I use a private Christian ministry that shares medical bills... and they DO pay when I need it (not when I frivously want it).

    If we took govt TOTALLY out of the picture... the system would take care of itself... it is called the marketplace. When one co charges too much, folks just quit buying from them and buy from the less costly one... and the co 'gouging' the customer has to either become competitive or go out of business. The marketplace is has worked for decades, centuries, even millienium... until govts get involved and screw it up... USUALLY IN THE NAME (INCORRECTLY MIND YOU) OF FAIRNESS.

    I am closing in on 60 years of age... I have seen a lot of stuff younger folks have not. My observations say most of the folks who want govt control, also want 'govt nanny state'... which is both illegal (constitutionally), as well as violating the rights of the working and tax-paying citizen.

    So tell me student: What gives you the right to take my $$$ against my will? The govt? What happens when the govt takes YOUR $$$ against your will to finance something you do not like? Will you agree with it?
    I have seen countless young folks who are liberal... learn the HARD way govts take unfair advantage of EVEYRONE... they either live in denial or they become conservative.

    Reminds me of a story:
    Kid wants to start a lemonaid stand... they are written a ticket by the govt for:
    NO tax license
    NO business license
    NO healthcare license
    NO food vending license
    NO inspection
    NO proper cash handling facility (cash register)
    and about a dozen more.
    There was a whole hour John Stossel on FOX about this a few mos back.

    When John Stossel went to local govt agencies to inquire about how to start the lemonaide stand... nobody even knew what all he had to do... but they KNEW he could not do it legally, and they WOULD enforce the law.
    SOOO: the govt will not even bother to tell you what the law is... but hey sure as heck will fine you as much as their greedly little minds can get away with if you violate the same laws they will not bother to explain.
    Sounds more like a third world banana dictatorship than a democracy to me.

    So tell me student; when does this institution called govt need to be regulated... and how would YOU regulate the govt to make it FAIR for ALL interests... AND keep within the bounds of the Constitution?
    I understand what you are saying.

    When you get a job do they not have rules? Most of these rules were put in place because one too many people stole from the company, or wrecked the service vehicle, or wore clothes that had holes in them. These rules are everywhere we go due to learning experiences and people not taking responsibility.

    The same IMO goes for government....too many people going bankrupt, too many ripping off the system, while I don't agree with you about abolishing government, I do think that something should be done to keep people from abusing the support systems we have put in place.

    The problem is that government has been out of the picture for a long time when it comes to healthcare, unless you count medicare/medicaid/VA...and what good has it done us? The market has NOT taken care of itself, while people are going broke in the process....the same thing was going on back when the first cars came out...and something had to be done about it.

    The government making laws to stop or slow bankruptcies in America is completely constitutional as long as it's done in a uniform manner.

    As far as what I would do to make things fair? You got me there...I admit that I'm not smart enough to run an entire nation....but that's the great thing about what we call the United States Of America....there's not supposed to be one person running the show...we ALL have a say.

    At the same time that could also be the downfall of us...too many different opinions...I would hate to be the government, having to try to please everyone.....we can't even agree here on this site just the few of us...imagine the stress of actually calling the shots for hundreds of millions of people.

    Momma always told me life isn't fair boy...get over it.

  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    First: Just about ANY discussion, one can find info on the net to support BOTH sides of the discussion... so siting links is IMO kinda like saying a polecat says this or that... not worth the electrons to light up the screen.
    True. But at least I support my views with links that can be checked and compared with other information in order to check the validity of the information. So far you have not lit up one electron to support your statement.

    IMO we still are missing the point: In the USA, the founding fathers and the founding documents are clear the govt is NOT to engage in this behavior. Their ONLY job is to guarantee freedom and rights. It is the responsibility of each citizen to take care of themselves... and if they do not they suffer the consequences. Nanny govts do NOT make life better, unless you are one of the folks living on the dole and like it.

    Which means I am supporting your ineptness... which is violating my right to freedom.
    And IMO a lot of you live with rosy glasses on thinking what your founding fathers decided in simpler times when a man could scratch a living out of the dirt and it took half a year to cross your country. The government is there to protect the country from internal and external threats to its existence. I would think not allowing the sale of sugar laden drinks by the bucket (you can still buy a bucket of non-sugar drinks) would be a great threat to a person's liberties and rights. If it were only the individual that suffered from being overweight there would be little need for the government to get involved but since the numbers are so great and it does effect the future of your county's health your founding fathers might have thought different.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    I can see the government not wanting people to operate an unlicensed lemonade stand because of the food. You can get people sick making a jar of lemonade if you are not carefull.

    They throw out the kid and the lemonade story but they forget the hundreds of thousands of yard sales that go on day after day in america and the flea markets.....

    My sister used to make a fortune at the flea market and ebay. She would go to yard sales and buy old logo t shirts and old womens purses and such and would market them on ebay as "vintage".... she was making a couple of grand a month off this and paid no taxes whatsoever....... no government regulation.....nothing......

    Yes, the little kid with the lemonade stand shut down by big government is a real tear jerker..... but for each kid out here getting his lemonade stand stomped down into the ground by a bunch of nazi stormtroopers.....there are people making a good living out here at flea markets and ebay and the government doesnt do a damn thing to regulate or stop them.
    So tell me:

    Is a kid learning how to run a business more important... or is the 'possibility' of bad lemonaide more important. Note the word POSSIBILITY!

    In my mind, you have bought the lie that govt has to protect you from all those bad folks. Tell you what: go out and find a dozen lemonaid stands... buy a glass from each, and put it in a sterile lidded jar. Then get them tested. I have a $1 bill that says you will find all 12 are safe. So tell me what the govt is protecting us from? Other than an imaginary thing called fear.

    I had a friend who was making in excess of $5K a month doing the garage sale to Ebay thingy... with VHS, DVD, and CD's. After about a decade, the IRS came along and literally bankrupted him; took his house, his car, and most of his possessions... and through some hocus-pokus he cannot have an internet connection... because he might break the law again (true story). They used Ebay's records to do it... So it could only be a matter of time before your sister gets caught.

    And lets not forget: Part of Obamacare is thousands of new IRS agents (already hired and trained), to enforce it. Now if SCOTUS (high court) overthrows Obamacare, what do you think those IRS agents will be doing??? Yeah, you are right... ripping off every person they can find, so they can keep that cushy govt job for 20 years and get free healthcare for life at YOUR TAX expense. Still like the govt?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I understand what you are saying.

    When you get a job do they not have rules? Most of these rules were put in place because one too many people stole from the company, or wrecked the service vehicle, or wore clothes that had holes in them. These rules are everywhere we go due to learning experiences and people not taking responsibility.

    The same IMO goes for government....too many people going bankrupt, too many ripping off the system, while I don't agree with you about abolishing government, I do think that something should be done to keep people from abusing the support systems we have put in place.

    The problem is that government has been out of the picture for a long time when it comes to healthcare, unless you count medicare/medicaid/VA...and what good has it done us? The market has NOT taken care of itself, while people are going broke in the process....the same thing was going on back when the first cars came out...and something had to be done about it.

    The government making laws to stop or slow bankruptcies in America is completely constitutional as long as it's done in a uniform manner.

    As far as what I would do to make things fair? You got me there...I admit that I'm not smart enough to run an entire nation....but that's the great thing about what we call the United States Of America....there's not supposed to be one person running the show...we ALL have a say.

    At the same time that could also be the downfall of us...too many different opinions...I would hate to be the government, having to try to please everyone.....we can't even agree here on this site just the few of us...imagine the stress of actually calling the shots for hundreds of millions of people.

    Momma always told me life isn't fair boy...get over it.
    You still do not get it:

    Tell you what: Read the founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments):

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html

    Then tell me how you think it is the Govt's job to force folks to do what the govt thinks is good for them. Then tell me just 'who' makes these standards. Ever question the standards? Might learn something if you questioned rather than followed like a heard of sheeple.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    True. But at least I support my views with links that can be checked and compared with other information in order to check the validity of the information. So far you have not lit up one electron to support your statement.



    And IMO a lot of you live with rosy glasses on thinking what your founding fathers decided in simpler times when a man could scratch a living out of the dirt and it took half a year to cross your country. The government is there to protect the country from internal and external threats to its existence. I would think not allowing the sale of sugar laden drinks by the bucket (you can still buy a bucket of non-sugar drinks) would be a great threat to a person's liberties and rights. If it were only the individual that suffered from being overweight there would be little need for the government to get involved but since the numbers are so great and it does effect the future of your county's health your founding fathers might have thought different.
    Printer, you are still seeing this through the eyes of 'the govt knows best'... which is just wrong according to the founding documents of this country.

    Let me say this one more time: It is the job of the govt to protect each citizen's freedom and rights, until those freedoms and/or rights infringe on another's freedom and rights... it is NOT the govt's job to control the behavior of the citizens.

    As to the argument about insurance co's and doc costs... AS noted repeatedly; the free market system will take care of that if the govt will just get out of the way.

    MeThinks it is either fear or lazyness or greed that keeps folks from embracing freedom. Can you tell me which one?

    This reminds me of a story:
    Little orphan waif kid... manages to steal a PBJ (peanut butter & jelly sandwich). And wow, is that kid proud of his accomplishment; he hangs on to that sandwich with all his power. Then he walks up the steps of a building where he can enter and work a days work pushing a broom and get enough $$$ to buy a dozen PBJ's... just one catch: the kid has to LEAVE the PBJ he stole in the trash...
    Guess what the kid does: He turns around and leaves the work and $$$ and 12 sandwiches, because he is too proud to trash the one he stole.

    Now anyone care to explain the moral of that story??? I will later in the day if this thread continues.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Printer, you are still seeing this through the eyes of 'the govt knows best'... which is just wrong according to the founding documents of this country.
    And with 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being obese due to marketing forces it is hard to blame the government on this one.

    Let me say this one more time: It is the job of the govt to protect each citizen's freedom and rights, until those freedoms and/or rights infringe on another's freedom and rights... it is NOT the govt's job to control the behavior of the citizens.
    But it is ok for the companies to manipulate people into making poor choices to the detriment of your country.

    As to the argument about insurance co's and doc costs... AS noted repeatedly; the free market system will take care of that if the govt will just get out of the way.
    You have a lot of faith in a free market system that has never been free and never will. With the free movement of money why would the free market care about your country once it sucks the life blood out of it? [/QUOTE]

    MeThinks it is either fear or lazyness or greed that keeps folks from embracing freedom. Can you tell me which one?
    What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?

    This reminds me of a story:
    Little orphan waif kid... manages to steal a PBJ (peanut butter & jelly sandwich). And wow, is that kid proud of his accomplishment; he hangs on to that sandwich with all his power. Then he walks up the steps of a building where he can enter and work a days work pushing a broom and get enough $$$ to buy a dozen PBJ's... just one catch: the kid has to LEAVE the PBJ he stole in the trash...
    Guess what the kid does: He turns around and leaves the work and $$$ and 12 sandwiches, because he is too proud to trash the one he stole.

    Now anyone care to explain the moral of that story??? I will later in the day if this thread continues.
    Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    You still do not get it:

    Tell you what: Read the founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments):

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...stitution.html

    Then tell me how you think it is the Govt's job to force folks to do what the govt thinks is good for them. Then tell me just 'who' makes these standards. Ever question the standards? Might learn something if you questioned rather than followed like a heard of sheeple.
    I've already explained your first question to you.

    To your second question....we make the standards. You can say government makes them up, but who elects the government? You can blame the government all you want...but if the government fails it is because the people failed to act. We are their bosses...we put politicians in office and we can take them out of office. Another way we make the standards is that if we were responsible with our lives the government would not have to make standards for us.

    To your third question....Yes I do question standards...as everyone should. I just don't see it being a big deal that they outlaw big gulps....I buy powdered Gatorade at the store and carry a Bubba keg with me to work...often I will fill my cup with water instead....drinking soda when you've been out sweating all day is not the brightest idea, and it's even cheaper if you buy in bulk and carry a mug with you.

    You sure do like to assume a lot of things.
    Last edited by AStudent; 06-10-2012 at 03:46 PM.

  9. #87
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    If those children or those ebayers or those yard salers want to learn to how to operate a business then they should learn about fees, permits and other business neccesities....

    I would much rather have a lemonade stand knocked down by the nazis then have one person get sick from some kids lemonade.

    You know who more than likely pushes for these lemonade stands to be knocked down dont you ..... Businessmen..... who pay taxes, insurance etc.....

    Who else could it be....... but other businessmen whos desire is to squash any competition...even if its a couple of six year olds selling lemonade for a dime a cup.

    The government doesnt do a lot that someone doesnt push it to do.... like businesses seeking to drive their competitors out.

    I even see it in our own industry..... guys with nice buisinesses who did side work like bandits when they were younger......going into supply houses and threatening to quit doing business if the supply house sells to side jobbers....or approaching the city demanding that they go after side jobbers who dont secure the neccesary permits.

    John Stossel and others are not concerned about these kids..... I doubt John Stossel would even buy lemonade from his next door neighbors kid.....

    They just dig these stories up and use them because of their emotional value.

    Thats all Im saying ga..... yes.... Im sure a few ebayers have been caught...same goes for a lot of other "businesses" flying under the radar.....

    But to use something like a city shutting down a kids lemonade stand as an example of government nannyism run amok is just plain wrong.....because it simply isnt true.

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    And with 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being obese due to marketing forces it is hard to blame the government on this one.



    But it is ok for the companies to manipulate people into making poor choices to the detriment of your country.



    You have a lot of faith in a free market system that has never been free and never will. With the free movement of money why would the free market care about your country once it sucks the life blood out of it?


    What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?



    Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.[/QUOTE]

    Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

    And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

    However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I've already explained your first question to you.

    To your second question....we make the standards. You can say government makes them up, but who elects the government? You can blame the government all you want...but if the government fails it is because the people failed to act. We are their bosses...we put politicians in office and we can take them out of office. Another way we make the standards is that if we were responsible with our lives the government would not have to make standards for us.

    To your third question....Yes I do question standards...as everyone should. I just don't see it being a big deal that they outlaw big gulps....I buy powdered Gatorade at the store and carry a Bubba keg with me to work...often I will fill my cup with water instead....drinking soda when you've been out sweating all day is not the brightest idea, and it's even cheaper if you buy in bulk and carry a mug with you.

    You sure do like to assume a lot of things.
    One of these days, the govt is gonna rip you off and you are gonna be pissed as all h*ll... Remember this thread... Someone tried to explain, however you are too smart to learn.

    Any govt big enough to give you what you want (and feeling like you are being taken care of may be part of what you want... as opposed to rugged individualism), is big enough to take it away.

    Benjamin Franklin, when walking out for a break from forming the govt of this country, was asked by a woman: 'What kind of govt are you giving us?" He replied: 'A republic, if you can keep it.'

    The moral of that statement is: As long as the citizens keep govt SMALL and under their control, they will have what we are forming. When the citizens start letting govt control their lives... they will loose the very freedoms they think they have... a little at a time.

    Come back when you are in your 50's or 60's... and tell me this country is greater than it was when you were a student. I have another of those $1 bills that says you will agree govt is too big and a pain in your personal behind.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?



    Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.
    Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

    And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

    However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.

    Not sure how you screwed this up Printer, however I did NOT post the above quote.

    I have read endless stats which say one has a lot better chance of getting healthcare in the USA than Canada or England... so tell me what is so great about rationed healthcare... just because it is free.

    All I have to do to get all the healthcare I need (key word is NEED), is to talk to a few friends and carefully choose a doc. Never had any issues in my whole life.

    MeThinks this healthcare politics stuff is more 'fear mongering' than reality... unless we are talking about a person with a helpless mentality who is not willing to take control and responsibility for their personal health as well as their healthcare needs.

    So tell me Printer: What is wrong with a healthcare system where the buyer can tell the insurance co to take a hike... and find an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives if one wants to go shopping... rather than gripe all day.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  13. #91
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    I'll have a 60 ounce super big gulp please......Coke....and just the syrup please...with no soda or ice. Oh...can I have a couple of scoops of icecream on top of that..... dont worry about the syrup spilling over......I will lick my hands and the cup clean when I am done.

    Oh... I also need a small diet coke to wash it all down with.

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