Relatively new compressor grounded - tech says due to incompatible equipment.

[mmatos]

Hi there,

So approximately a year and a half ago, I had a company come and check out my A/C which was not cooling. The tech basically said that I needed a new outdoor unit (I have a split system) and I went ahead with the replacement.

Today, the unit stopped cooling. I checked the breakers and found the breaker to the outside unit (compressor) was flipped. Upon resetting, it immediately breaks.

I called the company that installed the replacement unit and was told they couldn't have anyone out until Tuesday, and they recommended I call another company if possible to find a sooner appointment. I took this advice and had someone out within an hour.

A tech from another company came and determined that the compressor was "grounded". He then checked the indoor unit and basically ranted about how the job was improperly done, the indoor and outdoor units aren't compatible, and proceeded to describe how the oils between the new and old units would somehow combine into a jelly-like substance and lock up the compressor.

Anyway, he seemed angry about the install and of course gave me a quote on a whole new system. He wrote down some information and he was on his way.

I have now scanned the ticket (attached) and sent it to the original company asking for their assistance in getting this resolved. As this was just a few minutes ago, I've not yet received a response. I'm very concerned that they're going to hide behind a "30 day labor warranty".

Basically, I am here to ask for thoughts on whether what I've been told sounds reasonable, and get some outside, impartial opinions on how to best proceed.

[jimj]

Sooooo...... the first contractor tied a new R410A outdoor to a 30 plus year
R22 evap coil! And lucky you he gave you a 30 day labor warranty?
I wonder why he was to busy to run your service call?

[jpsmith1cm]

mmatos,

The rules here prohibit pricing so I had to remove the photo from your post.

If you can remove the pricing from it, you can repost it.

[Mr Bill]

A tech from another company came and determined that the compressor was "grounded". He then checked the indoor unit and basically ranted about how the job was improperly done, the indoor and outdoor units aren't compatible, and proceeded to describe how the oils between the new and old units would somehow combine into a jelly-like substance and lock up the compressor.

Wow! and this may all be true but what a piss poor a/c company that would go into a rant over something they did not even install, they should have come there with a piece of mind knowing they had nothing to do with this, and offered solutions to correct what they felt needed to be corrected, PERIOD! Everyone that has ever worked with me, has always been told to move forward on any calls, it's never helps when the customer is made out to be a complete idiot, even if they have no idea about how a/c system work. If one of my techs would have ever went into a rant in front of my customer I would have sent them packing. It appears that scare tactics or not bad enough, this guy uses Drama. Suggest solutions, repair and get paid and move on, slamming folks work can be done by any idiot. Tell that a/c dude that Mimmally is spelled like this Minimally.

Was this your a/c service tech?

[carmon]

a 410 condensing unit and an old r-22 coil is not a good thing

[btuhack]

Your equipment warranty with the mfg should cover early failures, so read that first. If its determined that the failure is due to installation errors, the mfg voids the warranty...the warranty burden of the equipment shifts to you/ the installers shoulders. Either way, the labor portion is on you.

How the failure cause is determined needs to be "managed".

Who pays for the other corrections~ coil, line set(that you never paid for)?

Good luck.

[heaterman]

Lesson learned. Getting any satisfaction from the contractor that installed the mismatched system is slim to none. Being a mismatched system, the manufacturer most likely would limit the warranty to one year, if at all. Any company that would do a replacement such as this, more than likely did little if anything to assure that at least they properly flushed the old parts of residual refrigerants before firing up the new unit. The fact that it actually ran for a year and a half surprises me. As for the next guy in, his attitude sucks. Since you are going to have to bite the bullet and pony up for a new system, get 2 or 3 estimates from reputable local companies and go from there. Check the contractor locator map on this site. There may be one or more of our members listed in your area.

[second opinion]

There is no indication that this system is incompatible. The metering device would be the only indicator if it where an R22 expansion valve.

The original company may have flushed the coil and replaced the piston.

[wahoo]

Heaterman is correct. Just go on and forget "going after" the previous contractor due to the recent idiot's rant. Poor business practice on the last visit for sure. If you received what you were quoted on the replacement unit, then you'll have no "legal" leg to stand on. As to the mismatch statement made by 2nd tech....uh...kinda hard to "match" an old indoor unit with a new outside unit and I'm sure the previous company didn't promise you a "matched" system. But if they mixed freon types, R-22 coil inside with R-410a outside then this is definitely not a good thing unless you've actually got indoor equipment that is made to work with either and system was properly cleaned out with freon filters changed/replaced. I'd try and deal with first company and see if they'll make you happy.

[glennac]

You must live in jack leg city from the sounds of the two HVAC contractors you have dealt with here. I agree with wahoo in that you should contact your installer and see if he can cut you some slack since he apparently installed a 410a condenser using a R22 coil even if he changed out the r22 piston it would be a big mismatch. The compressor only lasted 1.5 years they owe you.

They could have found you a dry r22 condenser to closely match your evap coil. If they don't at least give you a good deal I would tell them that you will report the whole thing to the state lic board and register a complaint if they don't install you a new system at or just a little above actual cost since IMO they screwed up to begin with. They won't like that and might deal with you. Thank you, thank you very much

[mmatos]

I have received the following reply from the owner's wife:

I reviewed your photos and sent to the owner. I am sorry you have been put in this postion. Let me ensure you that if your compressor is grounded it is still under warranty. We warranty out grounded compressors as do all HVAC companies on a regular basis. It happens. I would like the opportunity to discuss the issues with you and will keep you scheduled for Tuesday as we discussed. The bid given by your other company is over $(removed). The product they recommend is Goodman. Please do your research on this brand, I have found it is not the better company with product out there. If you choose to secure your decision to go with what this technician /company recomends I am certain that will be your choice. The issues you are experiencing need to be discussed with our owner, the units have ran correctly for 1.5 yrs however you are experiencing a problem now. In order to warranty your equipment, that is not a problem at all. Nothing is voided and that is a tactic one would not trust. If you can show that you have maintained the system with maintence records from certified HVAC company and additionally that filters were changed we would be happy to modify the labor costs. At this point you are no longer under warranty for labor (current costs is (removed) per hour) and your equipment is 100% under warranty based on time frame. If you would like to continue with the schedule offered, please respond letting us know. Just an FYI the equipment with brand new ducts would cost you $ under $(removed) with us, I'm not sure if you have done research on Goodman product or the maintence of the current system. We use Lennox and Payne (Carrier ) products of choice. We would hate you to continue to pay unneeded prices but wanted to inform you that a service call to determine what is faulty in your system is $(removed). Your request to have us view the issues will cost a service call. Repairs can be discussed before any work is done. Our earliest time is Tuesday at 1PM. Please advise.

I'm in a situation where I don't feel I can fairly judge the genuineness of this message. Thoughts?

[Mr Bill]

Nice response! What I would do "FIRST" before I contacted the original installer is, have another different service co. out, "not the Drama dude" tell them you just want to pay them "for now" just to verify a couple things. You want them to verify that your TXV or piston in your existing evaporator coil has/had been changed to retrofit the old evap. to the new 410A refrigerant, and if the evaporator was designed for the pressures of both 410A/R-22 refrigerants, who knows the evap. could have developed a leak from the high pressures of 410A and the loss of charge "could" have been a contributor of the failure. If not, you have a good gripe to get this done at a substantial reduced rate, and if the original co. don't want to do this, tell them to go jump off the in the deep end, and call the guy back that verified this for you. What you will be doing here by having this verified, is letting them know your not stupid, and no matter how long it lasted, "a whole 1.5 years " it would still be trucking along most likely if they did their job properly from day one. O I love how they talk about Goodman, the Goodman is just as good as any/many out there now, since they have incorporated the Scroll into their equipment, ask them what kind of compressor is in their Lennox and Payne. Also they sold you a Aire-Flo, isn't Lennox mfg. the same?

[mmatos]

Thanks Mr. Bill,

In the original email when they quoted me, they wrote the following:

They are R410a Refridgerant and in order to switch you over from phased out R22 we will need to either put in a TXV valve (included in price) or change the cap to allow for higher pressure of R410a refridgerant.

So basically it sounds like they intended on doing it right, but I need to verify that it was done right. I'm working on getting someone else out for verification purposes.

Thank you.