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  1. #1

    Too many turns in a 27ft pipe?

    Hi - getting a 3.5 ton Keeprite 16 SEER unit installed this weekend (3100 sq ft house - 32 windows, 9ft ceilings, corner lot, partially finished basement) There will be a 90 degree turn in the pipe going to the ceiling, 90 degree and then 9ft from the furnace their will be a 90 degree turn and then a quick 45 degree turn before it goes 17ft to the outside wall. Probably another turn or two once it gets outside before it's actually connected to the unit. Are having so many 90 degree and 45 degree turns going to affect the efficiency of the unit - or is t really the length of the pipe from the unit to the furnace that makes all the difference? ANY advice that I can bestow on the installers on Sunday is appreciated (just in case I see them struggle).
    Many thanks! Marc in Brampton

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,481
    Your "installers" are working on Sunday to install your unit? Wow, how'd you get that to work out? Aren't they doing the ductwork lay out?

    Is this pipe with all the turns the freon lines?

  3. #3
    Hi Wahoo! - yes, ALL the necessary piping from the furnace to the A/C unit outside will have to go through this route. It's a brand new builder home with no existing A/C unit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    5,060
    Quote Originally Posted by canadianim View Post
    Hi Wahoo! - yes, ALL the necessary piping from the furnace to the A/C unit outside will have to go through this route. It's a brand new builder home with no existing A/C unit.
    Do you know if they will be using fittings or bending the tubing? And is the linear length of 27 feet correct or a WAG? 3/8th and 3/4th tubing?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    Do you know if they will be using fittings or bending the tubing? And is the linear length of 27 feet correct or a WAG? 3/8th and 3/4th tubing?

    No idea yet - what do you recommend - bending or fittings? - Linear length is a semi-WAG, could be as long as 30-32 when all is said and done. Should I recommend 3/4inch tubing? thanks again!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadianim View Post
    No idea yet - what do you recommend - bending or fittings? - Linear length is a semi-WAG, could be as long as 30-32 when all is said and done. Should I recommend 3/4inch tubing? thanks again!
    Using a tubing bender is far superior to brazing fittings. You system is probably going to call for 3/8th liquid and 3/4th vapor. Distance and fittings or bends in either case will be fine with spec lines.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
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    Totally agree with second, a tubing "bender" is far superior to soldering fitting to make the turns. Whenever we find leaks in a lineset (the tubing connecting inside/outside units), about 99% of time it will be in a soldered fitting or poorly soldered fitting for that matter. A quality bending tool eliminates a LOT of soldered in fittings!!
    Most residential units will work fine with up to 50 foot of lineset without any loss of efficiency.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
    Totally agree with second, a tubing "bender" is far superior to soldering fitting to make the turns. Whenever we find leaks in a lineset (the tubing connecting inside/outside units), about 99% of time it will be in a soldered fitting or poorly soldered fitting for that matter. A quality bending tool eliminates a LOT of soldered in fittings!!
    Most residential units will work fine with up to 50 foot of lineset without any loss of efficiency.
    A lot of brazing not soldering. There is no manufacturer that allows soldering of equipment.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
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    3,481
    Brazing....soldering.....kinda getting a little technical here aren't we? Yes you're correct, I should have said brazing, not soldering. Point made is simply to have the least amount of "joints" in the copper lineset!!

  10. #10

    Thank you Wahoo & Second Opinion

    It was great hearing your back and forth banter ! I'll let you know how Sunday goes. Thanks again ! Marc

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
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    4,975
    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
    Your "installers" are working on Sunday to install your unit? Wow, how'd you get that to work out?
    There's a big name company here in town, that is offering no overtime rates.

    Cracked HX at 11pm, found from a tuneup (ran at 11pm)?
    Installers there within 2 hours, putting in a new furnace, no OT for the installer.

    They starve the guys during the week, so they're willing to jump at the table scraps.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    There's a big name company here in town, that is offering no overtime rates.

    Cracked HX at 11pm, found from a tuneup (ran at 11pm)?
    Installers there within 2 hours, putting in a new furnace, no OT for the installer.

    They starve the guys during the week, so they're willing to jump at the table scraps.
    I would hate to work for a company that does not give you work during the week and wants you to be on call for a install on the weekend. This is unless what they might have signed up for.

    I have installers do installs on weekends and holidays but only if I give them a good heads up. People have families and lifes to live. Again we have done on weekends and holidays if that is the only time that customer could have it done.

    Now for labor rates, we have to charge the customer extra for this if it warrants. Meaning if my install crews have been working all week already but a customer is down and needs the system replaced asap. It is only fair.

    You keep your installers happy and working along with paying them for there hard work the job will be done right no matter what day of the week it is. I just can't Belive that a big company would treat there installers like this!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
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    4,975
    Quote Originally Posted by duckman06 View Post
    I would hate to work for a company that does not give you work during the week and wants you to be on call for a install on the weekend. This is unless what they might have signed up for.

    I have installers do installs on weekends and holidays but only if I give them a good heads up. People have families and lifes to live. Again we have done on weekends and holidays if that is the only time that customer could have it done.

    Now for labor rates, we have to charge the customer extra for this if it warrants. Meaning if my install crews have been working all week already but a customer is down and needs the system replaced asap. It is only fair.

    You keep your installers happy and working along with paying them for there hard work the job will be done right no matter what day of the week it is. I just can't Belive that a big company would treat there installers like this!
    It's not THAT uncommon here.
    I can think of another company that does it to installers.

    I can think of a company that does it to their service guys.
    How does a company promise to be at your door within the hour they promise? Overstaff, keep 2 techs at home, call them in if you have to.

    All 3 companies, have recently switched (within the last year), to these labor strategies.

    Believe it or not, there's talk of union.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

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