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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2

    Question

    I bought a house built in '89. It is 1400 sf with a York package heat-pump unit. It's in NW Arkansas and I'd like to upgrade to a Geo-Thermal heat-pump unit.

    Does anyone have one of these units? Any pros or cons beside higher initial cost? Also, can horizontal gound lines be placed with a Vermeer horizontal drilling unit instead of digging trenches?

    Thanks, Dan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Southern CT
    Posts
    552
    I used to install water furnace geo's in North Texas 14-15 yrs ago. Took a good amt of training, and saw first hand the financial advantages of those units. If you plan on being there a while, you HAVE to do it. As far as the ground, we used individual wells, usually 1 per ton. trenched between them, connected with fused poly pipe. Back then, it was roughly double the initial cost vs a traditional air to air heat pump system, but well worth it. Of course, then a 10 seer was considered HIGH EFFICIENT, and nothing above 12 existed to my knowledge, so people in that area were quick to appreciate the cost savings. Good luck

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Rockport TX Occupation:Retired
    Posts
    3
    I live in Rockport TX and installed 2 climatemaster T27 3 ton units in my 3200 sq. ft. two story home about 18 months ago. I am truly amazed at the comfort level - cost savings - and quiteness of these units. I had A water well and use 70* well water through the units. One thing I have found is that the 1.5 gal. per minute they suggest is way too much water. One of the units I have switched over to 3 GPM and it works just fine. I had A terrable time finding anyone to even talk to me about geo they all wanted me to just change out the std. unit I had with one of their new ones. I finely went directly to Climatemaster and they had one of their dealers contact me and we went from there. In my openion these things are the future. They are super effecient (my KWHs is about half what it used to be) quite, and being inside the home is A definate asset in the salt water environment where I live. Go for it !! they cost more but they will pay you back in energy savings, my units saved me $2700 in electric last year.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    171
    I researched geothermal for new constructin in NJ, and for some reason, the cost difference between geothermal and a conventional unit was so high, I didn't see a payback for 20 years, and I went with a conventional natural gas system. This is probably an "only in NJ" issue. We really wanted to go geothermal but could not in the end because of cost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    central Texas coast
    Posts
    11

    Rockport geothermal

    Hey I live in AP a few miles down the road from you. I am installing a 3 ton open loop. I have had a hard time finding any info also. My new unit shows a flow rate on specs of 9 gal per min. We are on the same aquifer and you are using 1.5 - 3 gal a min. Give me a buzz. jpotts461@gmail.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    71
    Where are you dumping your water? I looked into well discharge but have discovered this is too much of a problem with sediments. I have a nearby lake but too many environmental issues. My only option left is a closed loop using the lake. Recommendations?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,340
    Sorry to be a downer, but geothermals are not the way of the future. As air cooled heat pumps eer and cop continue to raise, so does the pay back on a geothermal. Most geothermals have a 20 year pay back compared to the new air cooled heat pumps. And every year it gets worse.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323

    Re: Rockport geothermal

    Originally posted by jpotts461
    jpotts461 at gmail dot com
    Please self edit and follow HVAC-Talk rules.

    E-mail addresses belong in your profile,
    permitting the server to function properly.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323
    Originally posted by bydabeach
    I researched geothermal for new constructin in NJ, and for some reason, the cost difference between geothermal and a conventional unit was so high, I didn't see a payback for 20 years, and I went with a conventional natural gas system. This is probably an "only in NJ" issue. We really wanted to go geothermal but could not in the end because of cost.
    That's too bad you could not see the light
    of a Dual Fuel system ( gas at < 23'F and heat pump otherwise)

    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lancaster,Ohio
    Posts
    464
    Geothermal Heatpumps are the way to go! However there are things to avoid. Refrigerant needs to stay inside and not in the loop! Only Water base in the loop. Close loops are better than open loops. Horizontal slinky loops perform the best. Linear loops are the least desireable. Open loops in wells are mostly illegal. Closed loops in wells are second only to horizontal slinky loops. Fusion pipe is the way to go. Climate Masters had best design,(had to drop them becuase of quality control issues, I hope they are past that now) Florida Heatpump is also a fine piece of equipment as is Water Furnace. I was disapointed with trane and carrier geo's. Florida Heat Pump is credited as being the original. The largest residental unit i installed was a double unit one was a 5 ton and a 4 ton, it was calculated for a nine year payback, but did so in six years (it was a climate master) I've never met anyone who regreted installing a geothermal. I have met unsatisfied customers, they were upset with our company and not the equipment.
    IcyFlame

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    central Texas coast
    Posts
    11

    geo's

    Learning is required. Type search and read geo posts and follow links. Lots of info there. A person who owns a 3-4+ k sq. ft house are using them. With energy rates going up it can be a very economical option.
    I am doing one on the Texas coast. 1,583 sq. ft. I have seen what they have done in the commercial areas and the savings are greeeeeeeat. As I have seen, read and studied HVAC and read in this forum, the quality of the install on all HVAC is critical to a long term investment. Get references if contracting out the work.

    As for the horizontal drilling I would say no. Something I was looking at was the use of a vibratory Plow. Again it depends on your soil, water, winter and summer temperature etc. PS Most geos take a little bit of land.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Emerald Coast
    Posts
    939

    dajoga

    Bandimere Drilling in Ft Smith is doing a lot of geo work and has a Hi-Tech approach. He works with several HVAC contractors that can serve your area.

    My e-mail is in profile if you need his # or e-mail.


    Dave

    Do not attempt vast projects with
    half vast experience and ideas.
    ...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    central Texas coast
    Posts
    11

    Re: Re: Rockport geothermal

    Originally posted by dan sw fl
    Originally posted by jpotts461
    jpotts461 at gmail dot com
    Please self edit and follow HVAC-Talk rules.

    E-mail addresses belong in your profile,
    permitting the server to function properly.
    tried to but the time limit was 1400-?? minutes since post.

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