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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12

    Confused Trouble with Trane RTAC 3004 chiller

    Need some help with a Trane chiller. A bit about myself, I have been in the industry for over 15 yrs, 12 yrs of it on commercial screw and centrifugal chillers, boilers, grocery store refrigeration and absorption chillers, 5 of those yrs with Trane. I am now working as a lead at a hospital and working with the chiller, hvac and med gas, certified and licensed for all of them. Ok, enough about that. My chiller is giving me comm loss issues on circuit 1, between boards 1U17 and 1U21. We were having larger issues with total comm loss blackouts, but we also had the older flat cable (chiller is circa 2001) so I installed a new round cable comm backbone and some new transducers (suction, discharge and oil, because the leads were not long enough to get a goo crimp on). This took care of all of the issues for about a year, until late summer 2011. Not many probelms between then and now, but did do things such as measure drop across link (all LLIDS came in with around 2.5-3 volts on the link) and voltage drop across power leads (none). When circuit 1 would shut down I would plug in with Techveiw(not Kestrel, I am not with Trane now) and look at binding, they are all bound. Would reset all diagnostics, sometimes it would pop another alarm. Thought maybe I had a device that was dragging down the link at times, but have never been able to measure or determine which device, its way to sporatic of an issue to find. Have replaced all ribbon cables for LLIDS boards and even replaced, at Tranes request, the power supply, 1U17 and 1U18 boards and rebinded. Still having issues. Any suggestions? Im stumped....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    24,975
    whearson,

    I moved this thread to the Open chiller forum.

    The AOP Forum is primarily for equipment owners seeking advice.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Not in Iran
    Posts
    992
    sounds like you took care of the basics,

    im interested , i see that ur communicating with Trane , that would be where i would be going on this one,
    no signature blast'em man blast'em
    !!!KILL THE TERRORIST!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    Yeah, but thier support in Pueblo is not what it used to be. They are some what stumped, and when that happens they just stop returning the phone calls to your open ticket number. The local office in Kansas is 200 miles away, they have the same issue I have in troubleshooting it, was hoping someone else might have seen this happen...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Hot South
    Posts
    1,204
    Your going have to disconnect the LLID's to try to isolate the bad LLID (or connection) causing the comm loss issue.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,010
    Quote Originally Posted by whearson View Post
    ...My chiller is giving me comm loss issues on circuit 1, between boards 1U17 and 1U21.....
    so you have had issues in the past...is it ONLY between the 1U17 and 1U21 now?
    It's tube brushing season...93% done (39.35 miles of tubing)...only 1,242 tubes to go!

    Original member of the Raccoon Brotherhood.

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    Yes, the original trouble started out in the original flat cable comm wiring and the actual sensors/transducers. What happens with that flat cable as we all know is that it becomes brittle, gets moisture in it and that grounds the signal. I had like 20-25 of the LLIDS giving me issues when I worked for Trane, on this chiller, so I sold the hospital the cable restructure with the new round cabling and new transducers. When I was offered this hospital gig, I took it before the job was done and the other guys came out to do it, and it solved the issue for about a year, then it appeared in the LLID boards, always including 1U17-1U22. 1U17,1U18 and the Power Module have been replaced along with new ribbon cabling as asked to by Trane Pueblo. That helped for a month, then problem is back..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    R123 - yes that is a good idea, and we did unbind a few of the LLIDS, and move them to circuit 2 to see if the issue would follow. This is how Pueblo come to the conclusion that LLID 1U17 and 18 were bad. So I replaced the bad ones with new ones and rebinded, rebinded the good "old" ones back to Circuit 2 and threw away the bad "old"ones. Problem back in 1-2 months, same circuit, same LLIDS.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    Im leaning to the side of one of the LLIDS or transducers becoming, at some point, a "drain" on the comm cabling and lowering the comm signal below the 2.3 volt limit. According to Pueblo and the troubleshooting guide, there should be a very steady and constant 2.5-2.9 volts DC on the comm circuit. Has anyone figured out a good way to get the voltage off of these things without cutting wire? They dont exactly make these transducers easy to test, and replacing all 26 on Circuit 1, thats cost prohibitive to our budget right now.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,010
    since you have converted to the round cable, throw in a 'wye' section as far away as possible and read the pin connections there.

    i have 5 suggestions...

    1. reinstall the software
    2. bind the bad llids as something else, like an air temperature sensor or something...sometimes it will take and sometimes it won't...then rebind them back properly.
    3. inspect the area for electrical interference
    4. move the offending board to another area (wire lengthening may be required)
    5. intall the software for a rthd...then reinstall the software for the rtac...you will most likely need to rebind everything and reprogram everything so use this as a last resort and write every setpoint down before starting.
    6. (bonus) use new cabling between the boards
    It's tube brushing season...93% done (39.35 miles of tubing)...only 1,242 tubes to go!

    Original member of the Raccoon Brotherhood.

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    Thanks Jayguy. I am going to try reinstalling and updating the CH530 software I think. I was thinking about that over the weekend, but I think I will have to call a tech out to do that, not sure if I can download the current off of the Trane Commercial website, will check though. Hadnt thought of rebinding them as something else, might try that to, just t see if they will hold a program. Have already tried moving the board and have already replaced all the ribbon cabling. Also, I think the outdoor air sensor is on this link, and mine is reading 20-30 degrees high I noticed today, got that ordered to replace...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    12
    by the way Jay Guy, is it possible that in your golfing rules, that chapter 8 could cause a discussion on chapter 10 (my golfing experience anyway...)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,010
    Quote Originally Posted by whearson View Post
    by the way Jay Guy, is it possible that in your golfing rules, that chapter 8 could cause a discussion on chapter 10 (my golfing experience anyway...)
    Chapter 8 explains almost ALL of the rules.
    It's tube brushing season...93% done (39.35 miles of tubing)...only 1,242 tubes to go!

    Original member of the Raccoon Brotherhood.

    EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!

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