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Thread: Appion vs C&D

  1. #66
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    Is there an easy answer or should I start a new thread.....
    If you can hold 200 microns how can you not hold 20,30....40???
    Isn't at that level basically no difference in differential pressure and size of the surrounding air molecularly speaking is no different. Seems like either you have a leak or you don't.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Is there an easy answer or should I start a new thread.....
    If you can hold 200 microns how can you not hold 20,30....40???
    Isn't at that level basically no difference in differential pressure and size of the surrounding air molecularly speaking is no different. Seems like either you have a leak or you don't.
    I understand your confusion. I understand it my self but can't really explain it clearly.

  3. #68
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    I get a positive pressure leak like 300 vs 400 psi but 20 vs 200 microns really isn't clicking for me
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    I get a positive pressure leak like 300 vs 400 psi but 20 vs 200 microns really isn't clicking for me
    Ahhh...ever thought of it as the pressurized system is escaping to a lower pressure environment (atmospheric) vs atmospheric pressure infiltrating into a lower press environment...the greater the press diff the greater the exchange of atmosphere? You know, the lower the micron level the more air infiltrates?

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
    Ahhh...ever thought of it as the pressurized system is escaping to a lower pressure environment (atmospheric) vs atmospheric pressure infiltrating into a lower press environment...the greater the press diff the greater the exchange of atmosphere? You know, the lower the micron level the more air infiltrates?
    I'm not sure positive pressure relates directly to vacuum like this.
    You would have a pressure sensitive leak big enough to pass air molecules at .0004 psi but not at .0004 psi
    Is there really a difference?

    Chris Could you ask DaveB if you get a chance.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  6. #71
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    Meant .004 vs .0004
    Just thinking if you can't hold a 20 micron vacuum your probably not going to hold a 200 either.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Meant .004 vs .0004
    Just thinking if you can't hold a 20 micron vacuum your probably not going to hold a 200 either.
    r u referring the rating of CRTs or leaks of that particular rate?

    a 20 micron leak will be slower than a 200micron leak if that helps.

  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Meant .004 vs .0004
    Just thinking if you can't hold a 20 micron vacuum your probably not going to hold a 200 either.
    I believe you have to include time in the equation. Example, the Appion crt can hold 20 microns for 5 minutes but maybe not for 30 minutes (at a given volume).

    Would it eventually get up to 200? Maybe. There might not be any material that would prevent a few molecules from getting through at that deep level of vacuum. So eventually any vessel pulled to 20 microns would rise.

  9. #74
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    what about a vessel pressurized to atmosphere, surrounded by a vacuum?

    basically, you're getting into the size of the molecules in the vessel, verses the size of spaces between the molecules in what ever material you are using to hold the two apart.

    don't forget also, that, in the words of some guy smarter than me, "Things just act weird in a vacuum."

  10. #75
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    http://www.vtechonline.com/pdf/VTech...%20Methods.pdf

    Was reading in here. A vacuum leak is much bigger than I thought. Some cool charts.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  11. #76
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    BTW for anyone who's interested, I emailed C&D about the micron rating on their CRT. I asked them 3 things;

    1. What micron level are they rated for?
    2. Do they test in house or by 3rd party?
    3. Would they hold a 100 micron vacuum for 10 minutes?

    Answers they gave me;

    1. Our CRT's are rated to 200 microns which is considered a "deep" vacuum.
    2. No answer given.
    3. We have been able to achieve the 100 microns, however not on a consistent basis.

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcrj View Post
    BTW for anyone who's interested, I emailed C&D about the micron rating on their CRT. I asked them 3 things;

    1. What micron level are they rated for?
    2. Do they test in house or by 3rd party?
    3. Would they hold a 100 micron vacuum for 10 minutes?

    Answers they gave me;

    1. Our CRT's are rated to 200 microns which is considered a "deep" vacuum.
    2. No answer given.
    3. We have been able to achieve the 100 microns, however not on a consistent basis.
    That is a paraphrase of what you whined to know in PM and I told you.
    It is also what i posted in open forum.

    No body is trying to take your Appions away Chucky...so stop wit the sissy fit and seizure over the rating.

    now back on ignore you go.....

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
    That is a paraphrase of what you whined to know in PM and I told you.
    It is also what i posted in open forum.

    No body is trying to take your Appions away Chucky...so stop wit the sissy fit and seizure over the rating.

    now back on ignore you go.....

    If that is the only way you can respond, please keep me on ignore from now on.

    Thank-you.

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