Appion vs C&D

[chuckcrj]

I already covered that earlier in the thread. You'll have to do a little reading but it's there.

I've read every post so far. Here is what you said;

C&Ds are rated by the company down to 200 microns.

Rated by which company??

[hvaclover]

I've read every post so far. Here is what you said;

Rated by which company??

Them, the manufacturer. And it's based on their own testing...no outside agency either...like i said you go on faith with any CRT claim. Who do you trust?

[chuckcrj]

Who do you trust?

The guys that come on here and explain their process. Also I trust my own experience, and I have used both Appion and C&D.

[hvaclover]

The guys that come on here and explain their process. Also I trust my own experience, and I have used both Appion and C&D.

Good for you. So you didn't really need an answer did you?

BTW: WHO DO YOU TRUST in this context was a rhetorical question...it did not pertain to you personally.

[71CHOPS]

well there's another 5 minutes i won't get back!!LOL!!

at least manufacturers actually pay attention to real world users through this site!!

I do find it funny that this entire conversation is an argument about 20-200 microns....am I alone in my amusement??

[hvaclover]

well there's another 5 minutes i won't get back!!LOL!!

at least manufacturers actually pay attention to real world users through this site!!

I do find it funny that this entire conversation is an argument about 20-200 microns....am I alone in my amusement??

Ask chuckcjr...he's plotting the down fall of C&D Valve co. He PMed and said so.

[chuckcrj]

Ask chuckcjr...he's plotting the down fall of C&D Valve co. He PMed and said so.

LOL not quite.

I just mentioned I am emailing them for clarification.

[itsiceman]

well there's another 5 minutes i won't get back!!LOL!!

at least manufacturers actually pay attention to real world users through this site!!

I do find it funny that this entire conversation is an argument about 20-200 microns....am I alone in my amusement??

Guess you skipped over the 42 min. video in the OP

Third party agencies do exist that certify (or de-bunk as the case may be) the claims of HVAC mfgs product claims.
May I suggest Detroit Testing Laboratories as the third part to verify your 20 micron rating. They have certified/verified the mfgs claims of several local hvac products. Some products gained acceptance (after DTL verified them) and went national. And other died on the vein. Thus is business.

But to further emphasis the creds of DTL, their findings were acceptable to AGA
as proof of product safety. And they are nationally recognized by the scietific and engineering community as the go to guys.

I would like to see your product certified as any product SHOULD be to prove its reliability.

You don't have to look far to do it either.

BTW I pick up my first Appion product tomorrow.:grin2.it just won't be a CRT.

You bring up another great point most people don't think about when buying a tools like this until its too late. If you ever had a core remover fail you would appreciate the in house testing and designing Appion has done with their CRT and have not just sat on their success or national coverage in the supply houses which apparently some other Mfgs. have been doing. I think you can imagine what happens when a tool like this fails under pressure and if that wasn't bad enough now there is no core in the valve with a system under pressure........ now with 410a and some of these tools haven't changed one bit. I do know guys this has happened to. Some of the tools have cracked in half

[*]We use NIST-certified vacuum gauges to obtain an exact reference (you might be surprised at how far off typical HVAC micron gauges are from an actual reading);

No I wouldn't and makes the 20 micron claim all that more impressive to me at least. 200 would be impressive too if someone with a certified gauge could verify that. Are you saying you are testing each piece? Are you using a TEZ8 all day long day in and day out for this and able to to maintain below 20 microns?

[hvaclover]

Like I said earlier, if you are prudent you don't take a mfg at their (Testo may be the only exception cause they have traceable certs out the wazoo. But due-diligence is still not to be ignored) word. There have just been too many cases of product failure that techs have bought based on overblown, flowery marketing descriptions.

One that comes to mind is the first recovery machine fiasco during the period of voluntary refrigerant recovery/reclamation certification. .

The recovery rate claims of most mfgs were outrageous.

So much so thy were made part of the education process of many hvac associations voluntary cert programs.

So the EPA stepped in and set a standard that reclaim machines must meet, and you had to send in a certificate bearing the model and serial number of your approved reclaimer. That changed my buying habits drastically.

So if you think investigating just price on that fancy, latest hvac toy is enough, you better dig a little deeper cause it may not live up to your expectations and could cost you some money thru liability.

[Appion-ChrisP]

Are you saying you are testing each piece? Are you using a TEZ8 all day long day in and day out for this and able to to maintain below 20 microns?

Yes, each MegaFlow component (hoses, core removal tools) is evacuated and confirmed as vacuum-tight.

We are using multiple TEZ8s, which doubles as a "long run time" test of these pumps, so that we can monitor what wears down and how we might improve these machines. The oldest machine on this line is one of the first production machines (4 years old), still pulling down to 20 microns, even after hundreds of hours and no rebuild.

The quick oil change gets a LOT of use on this line.

[hvaclover]

Hey Chris...I just took delivery on two of your 3/8" evac hoses and refused delivery on the 1/2" hose kit with CRT because it looked like the package and the hoses were run over by a truck. Supplier said they all came that way. I ordered a new one hopping it won't look like it was a used product...getting it Monday.

The 3/8 hoses I got from from a different source look nicked and marred, but I took them any way cause I have a 30 year business relationship with the supplier and i didn't want to bruise our mutual trust.

What gives with the beat up look of the hoses and zip ties (!?) for bundling them?

This was especially surprising to see on the premium hose and CRT kit.

Got any input for me here?

BTW Kudos on the hoses for bearing certs, you could use them for a fire hose they look so strong.

[Appion-ChrisP]

I bought my two core removers from CC Dickson, should i go through them or you ?
Ive tried on two systems to remove some cores and it hasn't worked.

Get in touch with us, this way we can make sure you receive a corrected replacement for sure, the first time.

[Appion-ChrisP]

Hey Chris...I just took delivery on two of your 3/8" evac hoses and refused delivery on the 1/2" hose kit with CRT because it looked like the package and the hoses were run over by a truck. Supplier said they all came that way. I ordered a new one hopping it won't look like it was a used product...getting it Monday.

The 3/8 hoses I got from from a different source look nicked and marred, but I took them any way cause I have a 30 year business relationship with the supplier and i didn't want to bruise our mutual trust.

What gives with the beat up look of the hoses and zip ties (!?) for bundling them?

This was especially surprising to see on the premium hose and CRT kit.

Got any input for me here?

BTW Kudos on the hoses for bearing certs, you could use them for a fire hose they look so strong.

We've found that the hoses get marred pretty easily, I think because of the texture and color combined. Through all the handling of production (cutting to size, crimping, evacuating, packaging), it's not uncommon, though we are constantly improving our handling to make them "prettier."

As for the beat up look of the packaging, this tells me that the supply house might have broken down our original bulk package and shipped them separately... they aren't the easiest packages to protect in shipping, so if they get reshipped, it can be tricky.

This is good feedback, though. I know we are reviewing our packaging materials to make them more "shipping proof," so I'll make sure these points are specifically reviewed again as well.