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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Afton, VA / Khorat, Thailand
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    2,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Very simple. What is there to trust if the system simply denies service to anyone who is unable to pay for the service. Everyone should be held responsible for their own bills. If you can't pay for something you don't get it. Nobody else should be responsible to pay for my care nor I for yours.

    You seem to be totally conditioned to think that others have some responsibility for your care. It need not be that way. I want freedom and am willing to take the responsibility that goes with it.
    Sounds utopian, huh? The govt already takes from all of us to pay for others who contribute nothing. Why don't you piss and moan about that? Welfare, food stamps, etc...... ER service and healthcare is not the national crisis it is made out to be by the left. Don't be a lemming. Plenty of cash could be saved to pay for healthcare and more if the govt was held accountable for their irrisponsible actions. Want everyone responsible for their own bills?? OK, lets start from square 1. NO govt handouts. PERIOD. I'd go for that. If you're not gonna get serious about it, don't jerk me around.
    Tough times don't last...Tough people do.

    Midnight Sun Astrophotography

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,326
    Quote Originally Posted by tunnel_rat View Post
    Sounds utopian, huh? The govt already takes from all of us to pay for others who contribute nothing. Why don't you piss and moan about that? Welfare, food stamps, etc...... ER service and healthcare is not the national crisis it is made out to be by the left. Don't be a lemming. Plenty of cash could be saved to pay for healthcare and more if the govt was held accountable for their irrisponsible actions. Want everyone responsible for their own bills?? OK, lets start from square 1. NO govt handouts. PERIOD. I'd go for that. If you're not gonna get serious about it, don't jerk me around.


    You are going after me as if I support those programs. I do not! I oppose welfare, food stamps, social security, government health insurance and other such handouts which are all at the expense of the taxpayer.

    In my opinion, none of these are the function of government. These programs are the path to socialism. Less government is nearly always better government. I am willing to take personal responsibility for myself and pay my own way thru life.

    For those who may use my position to claim I am heartless they are wrong! Unlike Obama, Biden and a host of other liberals I actually give away several thousand dollars a year to charities of my choice. And since I am personally active in those charities I am able to see first-hand that my giving is not misused. I currently am allowing a military vet live free of charge in one of my apartments until he gets back on his feet.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  3. #68
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    Dec 2007
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    Afton, VA / Khorat, Thailand
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    2,469
    Point taken....Didn't mean you support that. But if we're gonna fund anything, they want to fund everything. Got to stop it altogether.
    Tough times don't last...Tough people do.

    Midnight Sun Astrophotography

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,326
    Quote Originally Posted by tunnel_rat View Post
    Point taken....Didn't mean you support that. But if we're gonna fund anything, they want to fund everything. Got to stop it altogether.
    Agreed!!!
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by dsprice View Post
    Touchy subject and everyone brings up good points...

    Federal government does not have the authority to impose, "Obama Care"
    California is bankrupt due to healthcare provided to illegal immigrants.
    I do not own a 200k house. I do not drive a 40k truck and neither does my wife. The only reason I have a flat screen hd tv is because it was a gift. See where I'm going with this? I tell my friends who complain they can't afford insurance that they are full of crap. They can afford it, they choose not to. I have no doubt most people reading this have some sort of coverage and understand.

    We live in a free market system where payment for services is based on quality. Doctors compete in the same system. Although the link in the first post is a good idea, what would make doctors strive to be the best they can be under that system? What kind of quality would you expect?
    Someone mentioned Canada. Seriously? Where do you think they go for the major operations? How much do they owe in tax revenue just for being born?

    Everyone declares they have rights. Only one post in this thread mentioned the other half of that...we also have responsibilities.

    Look, is the healthcare system out of control? Yes it is. But its not the insurance companies that are the problem, its the healthcare system itself that is the problem...

    You have pain in your knee, so you get an X-ray. There's nothing to be seen so you get an ultrasound, still nothing. Now you get a ct scan...nope, nothing there. Ok, schedule an MRI and finally you found the problem. So why didn't the doctor schedule the MRI first and save you the wasted money on all the other imaging?

    I could go on forever with this topic but I think I've rambled long enough.



    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
    Do you know what you are talking about? Over the years I have been here we have gone over this a few times and I found out many of you are paying in insurance premiums for a family about what I pay in income tax for a year. Where do you get the idea that we do not do our own operations? Show me some statistics on how many Canadians leave the country for their health care? We have a different payment system here but otherwise our health care is not much different than what you have.


    Actually caught up with all the posts and in this thread it was said some of you play more to insure your families than I pay tax.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by commtech77 View Post
    I said price shifting was the reason for the insured paying higher prices an used illegal aliens as one example.


    I cant be blamed for your poor reading comprehension.
    It appears you don't recall your last statement in your post. You confirmed that illegal immigration is the cause of rising healthcare costs.

    A bit later on you posted an item about illegal immigrants having babies in a Dallas hospital.

    You sure blabbered volumes about illegal immigrants for someone claiming not to be talking about illegal immigrants.





    You posted a lie about getting a source from heritage and then when confronted failed to produce the link.
    My source was indeed Heritage.

    Web central even found the article. Something you could have easily done instead of whining and crying.






    Liberals are so predictable.
    More projection.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  7. #72
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,626
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    Switching to a high-deductible plan in conjunction with an HSA would decrease the cost of heath insurance and the cost of health care.
    I thought the same thing but was wrong.

    I was told by Blue Cross that each (my) policy is reviewed annually by the insurance commission and rate increases are based on usage of each policy. So I though a high deductible would be used less and therefore would see the least in rate increases.

    Wrong! I just got a 20% increase. But an extremely high deductible would keep people out of the doctor's office for every little ache.

  8. #73
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Do you know what you are talking about? Over the years I have been here we have gone over this a few times and I found out many of you are paying in insurance premiums for a family about what I pay in income tax for a year. Where do you get the idea that we do not do our own operations? Show me some statistics on how many Canadians leave the country for their health care? We have a different payment system here but otherwise our health care is not much different than what you have.

    Actually caught up with all the posts and in this thread it was said some of you play more to insure your families than I pay tax.
    You can testify as a firsthand witness to the quality of health care in Canada until the cows come home, they will not listen. They believe the descriptions of your healthcare which is told to them by our healthcare mouthpieces and Fox News. And, with so many people not believing that we have a crisis rheum job being put upon us, we deserve what we are getting. Maybe when rates go to $3,000/mo we will wake up. But when they do, they will tell us who to blame...and we will beleive them. So again, we're screwed.

    A question for the opponents of a national healthcare system: You say we want something for nothing, in other words we won’t pay for it. I guess that means someone else will, like maybe you? Well, do Canadians not pay for their healthcare?

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    381
    http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-...re-no-model-us

    And that's just the first article...there are many published articles that name sources. If sources aren't referenced, I kinda doubt personal testimony.

    I do not doubt Canada has good health care, I just doubt its the same quality as here in US. Why should high end surgeons strive to be the best? The pay is the same for the one who is great at it as it is for the one fresh out of school. Of course there are doctors in Canada that are very qualified and are very good at what they do. So, do you get to pick your surgeon or are you assigned?

    Despite Brian's flaming post(s), I have actually been looking into the subject of healthcare for quite a few years now and would enjoy comparing notes with you.

    BTW, Brian, yes healthcare has gone up since Obama took office, but its still not 200k annually. If you are paying that much you are being hustled. If you are paying half that, you are being hustled. Do you have coverage? Your own policy or through your employer? How much, really, do you pay?

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #75
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    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
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    381
    Oh, and to answer your question, Brian, yes! Canadians do pay for healthcare. At least tax paying citizens do. How else does the government, any government for that matter, generate revenue to pay for this? Do you really not know or understand how this works? Or do you want to rephrase your question?

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #76
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsprice View Post
    http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-...re-no-model-us

    And that's just the first article...there are many published articles that name sources. If sources aren't referenced, I kinda doubt personal testimony.

    I do not doubt Canada has good health care, I just doubt its the same quality as here in US. Why should high end surgeons strive to be the best? The pay is the same for the one who is great at it as it is for the one fresh out of school. Of course there are doctors in Canada that are very qualified and are very good at what they do. So, do you get to pick your surgeon or are you assigned?

    Despite Brian's flaming post(s), I have actually been looking into the subject of healthcare for quite a few years now and would enjoy comparing notes with you.

    BTW, Brian, yes healthcare has gone up since Obama took office, but its still not 200k annually. If you are paying that much you are being hustled. If you are paying half that, you are being hustled. Do you have coverage? Your own policy or through your employer? How much, really, do you pay?
    There are about six Canadian posters here on HVAC-Talk who strongly defend their nationalized healthcare system. Therefore I would not take that article at face value until I read a rebuttal to it. And, why would you doubt personal testimony but believe that article? For instance it is easy to lie with facts. An example would be to publish the long wait times but not include that the fact that critical cases get pushed to the front of the line which I’ve been told is the case. If people are dieing from waiting in line then they should publish that, but they aren’t.

    Canada may have mediocre healthcare compared to our Ferrari care but at least everybody gets care and nobody is going bankrupt over it. Here the bulk of the people do not seem to care because their employers are paying two-thirds of their premiums. True, they may be able to opt out but that just means they’d have to pay the same amount elsewhere.

    As for the comparison between healthcare for a family of four and a $200K home, a poster here just stated his healthcare premium is $1,600/mo. That monthly outlay would pay for a $300,000 house, not including the 10% annual escalation of a healthcare premium.

    BTW – I do have health insurance through Blue Cross. I am a self employed General Contractor so I don’t get the employer gravy train policy. In a way I insure myself through having a policy with an $8,500 deductible, 100% coverage over that amount. I also have an $8,500 account ready to spend/lose it at any time. So I would pay the first $12,000 of health care each year for me and my son. Basically the same as if I had a 100% policy that cost $1,000/mo. I just choose to play the odds and keep my money in my pocket.

  12. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    381
    So you spend 12k out of pocket for two people annually? Far cry less than 200k...the exact same amount as my, "gravy train" and I'm sure your copay and rx is also the exact same as mine.

    So where do you get flamed remarks from? It appears you are the one that that regurgitates what you hear in the media instead of using actual stats for a basis to your arguments.

    Honestly, its ok to have an opinion and I'm willing to hear yours. Just don't believe that I can take your trolling seriously when you obviously are not informed. Actually, I think calling you uninformed gives you more credit than you deserve...

    Argue with me with facts....not bs...

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  13. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    One big fighting point against universal healthcare is that people seem to think it's just someone trying to get something that's paid for by other people but does insurance not work the same way? Either way you may be taking more money than you have paid in, with the promise to pay it back at a later date, the only difference is where the money goes.

    If I pay taxes on government paid healthcare but rarely if ever make a claim, those taxes will either go towards someones healthcare, or towards building roads, funding schools, keeping our military alive, paying our police and fire departments etc.

    If I pay an insurance company and rarely if ever make a claim, that money will go towards someones healthcare or the companies profit, which for all I know that company could be based outside of the country.

    So in what way benefits me more?

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