How to fix healthcare

[Hugh B]

So we should trust that you and anyone else that does not have health insurance have a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting there in case of a tragic accident or emergency medical treatment and hospitalization?

Very simple. What is there to trust if the system simply denies service to anyone who is unable to pay for the service. Everyone should be held responsible for their own bills. If you can't pay for something you don't get it. Nobody else should be responsible to pay for my care nor I for yours.

You seem to be totally conditioned to think that others have some responsibility for your care. It need not be that way. I want freedom and am willing to take the responsibility that goes with it.

[WebCTRL]

Well now here I make an effort to find a source that should be acceptable to even the wingnuttiest of wingnuts yet you still moan and whine.

I guess unless it is pulled directly out of Limbaugh's ass it is invalid.

Of course pulled out of asses seems to be the wingnut's preferred source of knowledge.




Well, everyone needs a hobby.



As delightfully tempting as that sounds, the need of my prodigious talents on this forum is of critical urgency.

Besides, I feel confident that the daily koss folks can easily flick away gnat-brained right wingnut buzzes without my help.

Well then geer, post the article you reference? It seems you want to say you use a Heritage Foundation article but refuse to post a link. Put you money where your mouth (or keyboard)is...

[WebCTRL]

If you are basing what you used to pay for insurance to what it costs now you are out of touch. It’s now much, much more because of Obama screwing with it (among other things).

Comparing the cost of insuring a family of four to the purchase of a $200K home, it is very close. With $20K down and a $180K loan your payment would be about $1,000/mo. or $12k a year. Health insurance for a family of four would be about $800/mo plus the $2,500 out of pocket deductible each year. Plus you have to figure in the rising cost of the insurance over thirty years. Not so with a home loan.

Actually my healthcare plan for a family of 4 plus the out of pocket costs runs about $16K/yr. Ridiculous huh, but it is my choice to pay that, not the governments dictate. With 2 young children, that is a priority.

And let's clear one thing up, when an employee of a company get coverage from it's employer, it is not free! The Company pays for it, so what happens, if said employee chooses not to have his insurance through the Company any longer? Well, the Company then drops said employee and the Company doesn't pay anymore...Can the employee then negotiate with the Company to have that money then put back in his paycheck? Yes! So then he could pay for a plan on his own, or he could get coverage via his spouse's employer. Either way, it should be his choice, right?

And when I looked into this, I could find very comparable plans out there that my family or other employees' families could purchase on there own.

So, the notion of getting free healthcare is just simply wrong, but if that is your way of looking at it, why wouldn't that be a motivator for those that some people say can't afford coverage, to go out and get a job with said coverage.

[Brian GC]

Very simple. What is there to trust if the system simply denies service to anyone who is unable to pay for the service. Everyone should be held responsible for their own bills. If you can't pay for something you don't get it. Nobody else should be responsible to pay for my care nor I for yours.

You seem to be totally conditioned to think that others have some responsibility for your care. It need not be that way. I want freedom and am willing to take the responsibility that goes with it.

You speak very idealistically but it isn’t based in reality. A hospital will give you emergency service irrespective of your ability to pay. What they will do though afterwards is take your house and all your assets to pay for that month stay in their hospital.

I doubt you could sit out a ruptured spleen because you don’t have the assets to pay for the treatment. You will go to the hospital and learn the hard way.

I don’t want anyone else to pay for my medical treatment. That is a right wing talking point that is meant for the ignorant. Having insurance or paying into a system IS being totally responsible.

[chaard]

Social Security, welfare and government imposed health insurance are not what the government should be involved with. Nor are any of these things in the constitution as rights nor were they the intention of our forefathers.

Truth be told some if not many of our founding fathers were socialists. Thomas Paine for one. Read Agrarain Justice and Common Sense. I'm working on showing that we were founded more on socialist beliefs than Christian beliefs.
But that's a thread for another day.

[Hugh B]

You speak very idealistically but it isn’t based in reality. A hospital will give you emergency service irrespective of your ability to pay. What they will do though afterwards is take your house and all your assets to pay for that month stay in their hospital.

I doubt you could sit out a ruptured spleen because you don’t have the assets to pay for the treatment. You will go to the hospital and learn the hard way.

I don’t want anyone else to pay for my medical treatment. That is a right wing talking point that is meant for the ignorant. Having insurance or paying into a system IS being totally responsible.

Hospitals should not be required to service those who cannot pay. That includes myself. I should be able to choose to have insurance or not. If I cannot pay for insurance or the care directly then I suffer the consequences.

I have gone without insurance in the past and have lived with what I am suggesting. I currently do not have fire insurance on my home nor do I have collision on my cars. If a mishap occurs I suffer the consequences of my decision.

Others should not be responsible for me nor I for them. It is not the governments affair to pay my way nor to force me into a contract of their choosing.

[newoldtech]

You speak very idealistically but it isn’t based in reality. A hospital will give you emergency service irrespective of your ability to pay. What they will do though afterwards is take your house and all your assets to pay for that month stay in their hospital.

I doubt you could sit out a ruptured spleen because you don’t have the assets to pay for the treatment. You will go to the hospital and learn the hard way.

I don’t want anyone else to pay for my medical treatment. That is a right wing talking point that is meant for the ignorant. Having insurance or paying into a system IS being totally responsible.

I agree. These guys that are saying they will take their chances will be the first ones at the emergency room getting free treatment while the rest of us who are being responsible have to pay for it. If it were possbile for our hospitals to really turn away emegencies then maybe we could debate it. But since that is unlikely to happen anytime soon this argument is alot of hot air. Bottom line is everyone eventually gets sick and needs costly medical care so the responsible thing is to pay for it along the way.

[Space Racer]

Unhealthy Health Care

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...nda-halderman#

Switching to a high-deductible plan in conjunction with an HSA would decrease the cost of heath insurance and the cost of health care.

[geerair]

Well then geer, post the article you reference? It seems you want to say you use a Heritage Foundation article but refuse to post a link. Put you money where your mouth (or keyboard)is...

Why, I wouldn't dream of depriving you boys of the educational opportunity of honing your search skills.

I probably already hindered your educations by giving you a solid lead.


Afterall isn't it conservative doctrine and fetish that "to give a man a link only feeds him for a day but teach him to search and he can feed himself for a lifetime."

[WebCTRL]

Why, I wouldn't dream of depriving you boys of the educational opportunity of honing your search skills.

I probably already hindered your educations by giving you a solid lead.


Afterall isn't it conservative doctrine and fetish that "to give a man a link only feeds him for a day but teach him to search and he can feed himself for a lifetime."

I called that one. You are too predictable... LOL!

[WebCTRL]

Why, I wouldn't dream of depriving you boys of the educational opportunity of honing your search skills.

I probably already hindered your educations by giving you a solid lead.


Afterall isn't it conservative doctrine and fetish that "to give a man a link only feeds him for a day but teach him to search and he can feed himself for a lifetime."

BTW, the article you reference from Heritage refers to those numbers (the 2/3 you quoted) as reported by a Pew Hispanic Center report, it isn't their number plus it references the drop in population as a report from the Dept. of Homeland Security which says plainly that the number is an estimate.

As we all can read between the lines, that reported number is waay low because you know the Census workers don't get to all the illegals to inlcude in their report.

But I guess my question for you is, do you think the illegal population has an effect on the cost of healthcare in the U.S.?

[geerair]

BTW, the article you reference from Heritage refers to those numbers (the 2/3 you quoted) as reported by a Pew Hispanic Center report, it isn't their number plus it references the drop in population as a report from the Dept. of Homeland Security which says plainly that the number is an estimate.

As we all can read between the lines, that reported number is waay low because you know the Census workers don't get to all the illegals to inlcude in their report.

But I guess my question for you is, do you think the illegal population has an effect on the cost of healthcare in the U.S.?

See was that so hard?

I used Hertiage as a source, I didn't say it was their number.

All of these numbers are estimate, did you somehow believe they weren't?

Do you have numbers to rebut this?


An effect on health care? Certainly, but that wasn't the point.

Comm77 blamed rising healthcare costs on illegal immigration.

The point being that illegal immigration has dropped drastically in the same period that healthcare costs continued to rise.

Comm77 assertion is not supported by the evidence.

[Six]

See was that so hard?

I used Hertiage as a source, I didn't say it was their number.

All of these numbers are estimate, did you somehow believe they weren't?

Do you have numbers to rebut this?


An effect on health care? Certainly, but that wasn't the point.

Comm77 blamed rising healthcare costs on illegal immigration.

The point being that illegal immigration has dropped drastically in the same period that healthcare costs continued to rise.

Comm77 assertion is not supported by the evidence.

I said price shifting was the reason for the insured paying higher prices an used illegal aliens as one example.


I cant be blamed for your poor reading comprehension.

You posted a lie about getting a source from heritage and then when confronted failed to produce the link.

Liberals are so predictable.