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  1. #40
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    Feb 2009
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Right. And TV is not a right either. So what is your point?
    It's a different world.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    381
    Touchy subject and everyone brings up good points...

    Federal government does not have the authority to impose, "Obama Care"
    California is bankrupt due to healthcare provided to illegal immigrants.
    I do not own a 200k house. I do not drive a 40k truck and neither does my wife. The only reason I have a flat screen hd tv is because it was a gift. See where I'm going with this? I tell my friends who complain they can't afford insurance that they are full of crap. They can afford it, they choose not to. I have no doubt most people reading this have some sort of coverage and understand.

    We live in a free market system where payment for services is based on quality. Doctors compete in the same system. Although the link in the first post is a good idea, what would make doctors strive to be the best they can be under that system? What kind of quality would you expect?
    Someone mentioned Canada. Seriously? Where do you think they go for the major operations? How much do they owe in tax revenue just for being born?

    Everyone declares they have rights. Only one post in this thread mentioned the other half of that...we also have responsibilities.

    Look, is the healthcare system out of control? Yes it is. But its not the insurance companies that are the problem, its the healthcare system itself that is the problem...

    You have pain in your knee, so you get an X-ray. There's nothing to be seen so you get an ultrasound, still nothing. Now you get a ct scan...nope, nothing there. Ok, schedule an MRI and finally you found the problem. So why didn't the doctor schedule the MRI first and save you the wasted money on all the other imaging?

    I could go on forever with this topic but I think I've rambled long enough.



    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,294
    Quote Originally Posted by dsprice View Post
    Touchy subject and everyone brings up good points...

    Federal government does not have the authority to impose, "Obama Care"
    California is bankrupt due to healthcare provided to illegal immigrants.
    I do not own a 200k house. I do not drive a 40k truck and neither does my wife. The only reason I have a flat screen hd tv is because it was a gift. See where I'm going with this? I tell my friends who complain they can't afford insurance that they are full of crap. They can afford it, they choose not to. I have no doubt most people reading this have some sort of coverage and understand.

    We live in a free market system where payment for services is based on quality. Doctors compete in the same system. Although the link in the first post is a good idea, what would make doctors strive to be the best they can be under that system? What kind of quality would you expect?
    Someone mentioned Canada. Seriously? Where do you think they go for the major operations? How much do they owe in tax revenue just for being born?

    Everyone declares they have rights. Only one post in this thread mentioned the other half of that...we also have responsibilities.

    Look, is the healthcare system out of control? Yes it is. But its not the insurance companies that are the problem, its the healthcare system itself that is the problem...

    You have pain in your knee, so you get an X-ray. There's nothing to be seen so you get an ultrasound, still nothing. Now you get a ct scan...nope, nothing there. Ok, schedule an MRI and finally you found the problem. So why didn't the doctor schedule the MRI first and save you the wasted money on all the other imaging?

    I could go on forever with this topic but I think I've rambled long enough.
    Do you currently have health insurance? And if so, do you pay for it out of pocket or does you or your wife's employer pay for it?

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    381
    I pay through my employer for both of us

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Do you currently have health insurance? And if so, do you pay for it out of pocket or does you or your wife's employer pay for it?
    If I don't choose to have or pay for health insurance then I pay for my medical and doctor's visits directly out of my own pocket. I only get the care I can pay for and no more.

    I stated earlier that I do not and never have carried fire insurance on my home. Instead I invested that money elsewhere. If my home burns down then I take the loss.

    There are two sides to the equation. I have the freedom to make my own choices and take the personal responsibility for the results. I do not believe the government has any obligation to care for me. I don't want the government to pay my way nor do I want to be forced to purchase their idea of some social insurance, health care or other insurance. And, I should not be forced to pay for yours nor you mine.

    At the same time I take the responsibility for my choices!!!!

    Social Security, welfare and government imposed health insurance are not what the government should be involved with. Nor are any of these things in the constitution as rights nor were they the intention of our forefathers.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  6. #45
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsprice View Post
    I pay through my employer for both of us

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
    Then I would venture to say you pay about one third the going rate for health insurance if bought on the open market.

    My point is that people who get “free” health insurance as you do are in no position to tell others that have to pay full price for it what they can afford. Do you even know what health insurance really costs for a family of four? It’s more than a $200,000 house.

  7. #46
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    At the same time I take the responsibility for my choices!!!!
    So we should trust that you and anyone else that does not have health insurance have a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting there in case of a tragic accident or emergency medical treatment and hospitalization?

  8. #47
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    Apr 2012
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    Paper Street Soap Company
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Heritage Foundation article.

    Do you have a problem with them as well as with wiki?
    You are hillarious. After exposing yourself as practically pathological on multiple post you expect people to believe you actually read a article from the heritage foundation.

    True reading anything from that orginization will keep you well informed but let me remind you I asked for links, not your lies.

    Do you NOT know how to include links into a post on a forum ? THAT I believe.

    Just FYI the daily kos has a froum too. I used to routinely go there and expose the lying hypocrites that call that place home.

    Your empty propoganda would be well recieved amongst the moonbats.

  9. #48
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    Dec 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
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    381
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Then I would venture to say you pay about one third the going rate for health insurance if bought on the open market.

    My point is that people who get “free” health insurance as you do are in no position to tell others that have to pay full price for it what they can afford. Do you even know what health insurance really costs for a family of four? It’s more than a $200,000 house.
    Yes I do know what it cost. I have paid out of pocket before and it wasn't even half that for 2 people...if you or someone you know actually pays 200k then someone is being robbed. Sorry, Brian, but those numbers aren't realistic based on actual experiences.

    I might add that my current coverage isn't free...after the premium and copay, I actually pay more on deductions and out of pocket now than I did with my own policy under the same group I have now.

    My point to my original post is that if someone's cost of living is too high and they are sacrificing health insurance to keep a high standard of living then their priorities are backwards. Typical of my generation. They want immediate gratification with no responsibility.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    17,089
    Quote Originally Posted by commtech77 View Post
    You are hillarious. After exposing yourself as practically pathological on multiple post you expect people to believe you actually read a article from the heritage foundation.

    True reading anything from that orginization will keep you well informed but let me remind you I asked for links, not your lies.

    Do you NOT know how to include links into a post on a forum ? THAT I believe.
    Well now here I make an effort to find a source that should be acceptable to even the wingnuttiest of wingnuts yet you still moan and whine.

    I guess unless it is pulled directly out of Limbaugh's ass it is invalid.

    Of course pulled out of asses seems to be the wingnut's preferred source of knowledge.




    Just FYI the daily kos has a froum too. I used to routinely go there and expose the lying hypocrites that call that place home.
    Well, everyone needs a hobby.



    Your empty propoganda would be well recieved amongst the moonbats.
    As delightfully tempting as that sounds, the need of my prodigious talents on this forum is of critical urgency.

    Besides, I feel confident that the daily koss folks can easily flick away gnat-brained right wingnut buzzes without my help.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  11. #50
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    Jul 2007
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    New Jersey
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    3,031
    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    how to fix healthcare
    answer fix the economy first, then the debt, then the deficit, then worry about healthcare
    “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” ~ Sir Isaac Newton


    I'm learning all the time, the tombstone will be my diploma!!!


    Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast
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    729
    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Illegal immigration has dropped by almost 2/3 in the past ten years yet healthcare costs have risen significantly during the same period.
    There are 20 million plus still here, maybe the rate of them coming has dropped but the vast amount of illegals are still here and are still a burden on gov't furnished services and healthcare!

    If you cut that by 2/3, imagine the effect on healthcare costs!!!

    Also, even if we did cut out the middle man (insurance companies) you still have the cost of litigation, which is way out of control until some form of tort reform is put in place.

  13. #52
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsprice View Post
    Yes I do know what it cost. I have paid out of pocket before and it wasn't even half that for 2 people...if you or someone you know actually pays 200k then someone is being robbed. Sorry, Brian, but those numbers aren't realistic based on actual experiences.

    I might add that my current coverage isn't free...after the premium and copay, I actually pay more on deductions and out of pocket now than I did with my own policy under the same group I have now.

    My point to my original post is that if someone's cost of living is too high and they are sacrificing health insurance to keep a high standard of living then their priorities are backwards. Typical of my generation. They want immediate gratification with no responsibility.
    If you are basing what you used to pay for insurance to what it costs now you are out of touch. It’s now much, much more because of Obama screwing with it (among other things).

    Comparing the cost of insuring a family of four to the purchase of a $200K home, it is very close. With $20K down and a $180K loan your payment would be about $1,000/mo. or $12k a year. Health insurance for a family of four would be about $800/mo plus the $2,500 out of pocket deductible each year. Plus you have to figure in the rising cost of the insurance over thirty years. Not so with a home loan.

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