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 Originally Posted by commtech77
Where are you getring your data ? Who counting ?
Heritage Foundation article.
Do you have a problem with them as well as with wiki?
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
Chapman Cohen
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Originally Posted by Brian GC
There is not doubt the insurance companies are paying the highest price for hospital services but what I cannot figure out is why the insurance companies do not object in any way. If an operation that should cost $5,000 gets billed to the insurance companies at $10,000 while Medicare, Medical and cash patients get charged $3,000, why don’t the insurance companies sue for being overcharged. It is all in black and white and could be brought in the courts.
If the hospitals are indeed using insurance company money to support other losses within their hospital it could easily be revealing in their bookwork and should be illegal.
As a contractor could you imagine telling a customer "I have to charge a little extra because the last guy ripped me off?"
Medicare and Medicade under pay physicians. Doctors have neen dropping those paitents like hot potatoes.
Hospitald cant so more price shifting to the insurance companies to make zp the difference.
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Originally Posted by geerair
Heritage Foundation article.
What? You didn't burn your fingers? 
"Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ― Bertrand Russell
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Originally Posted by scrogdog
What? You didn't burn your fingers?
Yes but all in the good cause of bringing education to the appallingly uninformed.
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
Chapman Cohen
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The first step to "fixing" this system, is to get the govt out of it. Our healthcare is not their job. They'd like it to be, but it's not. Of course alot of what they do is not their job and that is why it all goes to hell. Hasn't anyone noticed that yet????? Nothing the govt sticks their nose in actually "works" or "helps" it's intended group. All it does is empower them more and diminish all of our rights. Is EVERYBODY asleep out there??? This ain't rocket science people.
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Originally Posted by tunnel_rat
The first step to "fixing" this system, is to get the govt out of it. Our healthcare is not their job. They'd like it to be, but it's not. Of course alot of what they do is not their job and that is why it all goes to hell. Hasn't anyone noticed that yet????? Nothing the govt sticks their nose in actually "works" or "helps" it's intended group. All it does is empower them more and diminish all of our rights. Is EVERYBODY asleep out there??? This ain't rocket science people.
Well that was constructive.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain
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Government should have nothing to do with health care. Health care was non existent when this country was founded. Our forefathers did not have health insurance. The idea was generated later by businessmen.
There is no such thing as health insurance as a right. In fact, that argument has never even been discussed. What is a right?
The constitution says nothing about health care as a right. The bill of rights does not address insurance of any kind as a right.
Health insurance is a personal concern and if I can't pay for it I don't get it. You do not owe me health insurance. Nor do I owe you health insurance!
This is a personal choice if you can afford it and you should not have to have it if you can afford it but choose not to have it. I may want to spend my income on something else. So I choose to go without it and take my chances. In fact, I do not have fire insurance on my home and have invested what I would have paid in fire insurance in income generating securities. Again, my choice. If my home burns down I am the one who took the chance and take personal responsibility for my choice. That is how real choice works.
The government should not force me into a contract that I would not otherwise agree to. I believe in freedom and responsibility!!!!
Hugh B
"No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"
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Originally Posted by Hugh B
Government should have nothing to do with health care. Health care was non existent when this country was founded.
We never had TV either.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain
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Originally Posted by printer2
We never had TV either.
Right. And TV is not a right either. So what is your point?
"No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"
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Originally Posted by Hugh B
This is a personal choice if you can afford it and you should not have to have it if you can afford it but choose not to have it.
That is a very shallow statement. If people “choose” to not have health insurance they would need to have a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting there ready to pay for that unforeseen tragedy. Do you see that as a reality? Or are you saying they should just stick it to the state as they are now?
On another note: I have to say that you not insuring your home to save a couple hundred bucks a year is crazy. Did you know that if your house burns down as a result of a wildfire or from your neighbor’s house causing the fire they are not responsible for your losses?
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Originally Posted by Hugh B
Government should have nothing to do with health care. Health care was non existent when this country was founded. Our forefathers did not have health insurance. The idea was generated later by businessmen.
There is no such thing as health insurance as a right. In fact, that argument has never even been discussed. What is a right?
The constitution says nothing about health care as a right. The bill of rights does not address insurance of any kind as a right.
Health insurance is a personal concern and if I can't pay for it I don't get it. You do not owe me health insurance. Nor do I owe you health insurance!
This is a personal choice if you can afford it and you should not have to have it if you can afford it but choose not to have it. I may want to spend my income on something else. So I choose to go without it and take my chances. In fact, I do not have fire insurance on my home and have invested what I would have paid in fire insurance in income generating securities. Again, my choice. If my home burns down I am the one who took the chance and take personal responsibility for my choice. That is how real choice works.
The government should not force me into a contract that I would not otherwise agree to. I believe in freedom and responsibility!!!!
Hugh B
That could be argued....although it does not mention anywhere in the constitution that healthcare is a right with those exact words, our constitution does say that congress has the duty of providing for the general welfare of the United States.
What is more important than healthcare? If the country as a whole is unhealthy then nothing at all can be accomplished, including having a military which the Constitution speaks highly of having.
The definition of General is:
Affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread
The definition of welfare is:
The health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
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Originally Posted by Hugh B
Government should have nothing to do with health care. Health care was non existent when this country was founded. Our forefathers did not have health insurance. The idea was generated later by businessmen.
There is no such thing as health insurance as a right. In fact, that argument has never even been discussed. What is a right?
The constitution says nothing about health care as a right. The bill of rights does not address insurance of any kind as a right.
Health insurance is a personal concern and if I can't pay for it I don't get it. You do not owe me health insurance. Nor do I owe you health insurance!
This is a personal choice if you can afford it and you should not have to have it if you can afford it but choose not to have it. I may want to spend my income on something else. So I choose to go without it and take my chances. In fact, I do not have fire insurance on my home and have invested what I would have paid in fire insurance in income generating securities. Again, my choice. If my home burns down I am the one who took the chance and take personal responsibility for my choice. That is how real choice works.
The government should not force me into a contract that I would not otherwise agree to. I believe in freedom and responsibility!!!!
Hugh B
So you are saying that you don't have a ring in your nose to be lead around by a government run a muck?
Well, good for you !!!
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There are hostpitals/health plans that work this way. Kaiser started out this way, as a 'pre-paid medical coverage,' and still functions this way. This has quite a few positive effects, most importantly, because the premiums directly relate to the cost of care (kaiser's hospitals are non-profit), this results in the healthplan, doctors, medical staff, etc, focusing more and more on preventative medicine, and whole body health, because cutting health care costs becomes in the primary interest of the provider. Now if only they could get OSHPD and other intrusive government regulators out of the way, they could be even more successful, and have much lower premiums.
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