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  1. #40
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    Most hacks are only equipped with flex, zip ties and pex

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    Most hacks are only equipped with flex, zip ties and pex
    Nonsense.. with duct tape, you don't NEED zip ties...

  3. #42
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    Zip ties might be to professional I quess. Maybe some left over romex for hangers.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    GTA, ON
    Posts
    1,233
    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    I've mentioned this in other threads, and I'm not saying it should be one way or another, but in an internet economy, this is going to happen more and more. The fact is, the installers that make most of their money on the equipment mark-up are going to get priced out. If you are installing equipment, you should be making most your money on the install. If priced accordingly, this ad would not be a problem.
    The reason many guys went over to the equipment markup model is that your average Joe isn't willing to pay a fair labour rate that will cover the costs and allow for the installer to eat. Came across a guy convinced that because his plumber is charging $80 per hour, he must be making $160,000 a year Even after a long lecture about such strange concepts as tools, stock, downtime, truck, licensing, insurance etc etc etc, he didn't seem all that convinced. Even some helpers don't realize it and see an issue with "only" half of the labour rate going into payroll lol

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mid-Mo
    Posts
    3,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    Most hacks are only equipped with flex, zip ties and pex
    The one I'm seeing more and more is shark bite fittings, you have to add those in there too!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Memoe View Post
    This guy under suckered his bid to get the job...Now he will sucker you to do the labor for nothing! Let him eat his own cheese...!
    Without going into a really long story, it's guys like this that ran me out of town and forced my hand to move away from Wichita.....really sad.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,718
    Quote Originally Posted by DLZ Dan View Post
    Now that that's done, what do you guys think of the craigslist ad??



    LOL
    Craigslist is good for Casual Encounters only!

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    I've mentioned this in other threads, and I'm not saying it should be one way or another, but in an internet economy, this is going to happen more and more. The fact is, the installers that make most of their money on the equipment mark-up are going to get priced out. If you are installing equipment, you should be making most your money on the install. If priced accordingly, this ad would not be a problem.
    I agree and disagree at the same time, installers should get the majority of their money from labor, not mark up, esp. if they live around unscrupulous distributors that turn a blind eye to the fact that we have to pay for insurance and lic. fees, as well as continuing ed, and sell to any one with enough doe. All that said, if they do take the job, there is no way in hell you should install equipment that Joe Schmoe purchased online, or from some rotten distributor who sells to home owners and jack legs, for no money up front, or without a written & accepted proposal that clearly states no warranty is implied. As we all know, that guy will turn into a nightmare as soon as an equipment problem arises.
    If I were a starving installer and had to even ponder such a job, I would give him a proposal with my equipment price, mark up and labor, and let him compare the small amount he would save plus the head ache of not having his equipment covered by a warranty, if he refused, I'd either not take the job or do it as I said at first. (Prob not do the job to be honest.)

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    northern Ohio
    Posts
    120
    And what if that plumber was making 160K a year, what's wrong with that? Some customers think that because they have a Bachelors degree and we went to tech school that we are below them on the food chain. I would never let someone tell me that I make too much money for what I do. I would like to see a customer that thinks that "we" or a plumber or such makes too much money do our job. I dont know where to start. The 120 degree fiberglass filled attics we get to crawl through in July, the 2 foot tall crawlspaces full of spiders, snakes, and leaking sh** pipes (that they must not want to fix because there plumbers make too much money) the furnace room and basement where the cat litter box is always located, etc. etc. I wish I knew more tradesmen that were actually paid what they are worth. I'm young and dumb and probably get a lot of the jobs I do because they are miserable and everybody else bids them high because of it (Im also so damn skinny that I can crawl in places I think most cant, or wont go). As for the craigslist ad I also am contacted weekly asking to put in a unit that the homowner bought themselves from god-knows-where. Its usually the neighbors brother in law who is a electrician but has a account at the supply house... Funny thing is that nine times out of ten these people asking me to do this can usually buy and sell me five times over. I don't even get upset by it anymore and wish them luck finding a reputable contractor to do the install for them, I know in the long run that they will pay for it eventually... Im done venting.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,654
    The reality is, that if someone is doing the same work as you, for less, you ARE overpaid. That's just how the labor market works. The only reason plumbers and such can make 160k/year is because there aren't enough of them. High School only teaches college prep now, so there won't be any surplus of tradesmen in the coming decades.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    The reality is, that if someone is doing the same work as you, for less, you ARE overpaid. That's just how the labor market works. The only reason plumbers and such can make 160k/year is because there aren't enough of them. High School only teaches college prep now, so there won't be any surplus of tradesmen in the coming decades.
    Come come now. So, let me get this straight..., because some guy is willing to shovel $h!t for less than min wage, the min wage worker is over paid? Cut it out my brother. We are paid for our knowledge, experiance and the ability of the home owner to be able to reach us if they have a warranty issue. We all know Jackleg John will never answer the phone or show up again after he is paid. Any home owner with any sense knows this also, if they don't know, it's your job as a sales man/woman to explain this to them and convince them that this is why your bid is more than the bum they picked up at the hardware store and should be accepted.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,090
    Can someone please post a PIcture of the F'ing Duct Streacher????
    This i gotta see!! The only thing I can think of is a seam puller so you can get a drive cleet on.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,654
    Quote Originally Posted by lilblew View Post
    Come come now. So, let me get this straight..., because some guy is willing to shovel $h!t for less than min wage, the min wage worker is over paid? Cut it out my brother. We are paid for our knowledge, experiance and the ability of the home owner to be able to reach us if they have a warranty issue. We all know Jackleg John will never answer the phone or show up again after he is paid. Any home owner with any sense knows this also, if they don't know, it's your job as a sales man/woman to explain this to them and convince them that this is why your bid is more than the bum they picked up at the hardware store and should be accepted.
    You example is of two people NOT doing the same work. Apples and oranges. As for the min-wage issue, most people earning minimum wage ARE over paid, and it is detrimental to the entire economy, drastically increasing consumer prices, and shifting work across our borders, where labor costs aren't artificially lifted above market levels.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,864
    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    You example is of two people NOT doing the same work. Apples and oranges. As for the min-wage issue, most people earning minimum wage ARE over paid, and it is detrimental to the entire economy, drastically increasing consumer prices, and shifting work across our borders, where labor costs aren't artificially lifted above market levels.
    As much as we many not like this idea... there is a lot of truth in this post.

    Prices tend to set themselves at a place where folks 'can pay'... it is part of the way markets work. When the ability to pay goes up, the price goes up... and when the ability to pay goes down, then prices go down... it is called supply and demand. Now if one steps in and messes with one factor (regardless of the reason, including good intentions)... it throws the balance off.

    This includes when the government increases the size of the money supply faster than the growth of the population. The result is price inflation, which results in wage inflation. The only problem is; tax rates do not change... SO: the govt pumps more US$$$'s into the system (they call it stimulus), I earn more, to pay for higher priced things... and I get bumped into a higher tax bracket... govt really did me a favor there... NOT.

    And BTW: businesses and govts (in their greed) have been trying to destroy market forces for all of the human race... so far they cannot do it... there is a lesson there a wise person will learn.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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