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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    25

    Inverter/variable speed compressors

    This technology really seems to be the way to go. Do you all agree? The problem is I can't seem to find many companies using it in their residential, full size AC systems.

    I am aware of the Nordyne stuff in Maytag, Broan, Westinghouse and the like but I am hesitant to bet on these "lesser" known HVAC manufacturers. Plus they only offer it in heat pumos and only in 4 ton or less. I just discovered that Emerson has introduced the Copeland Scroll Variable Speed but nobody seems to offer it yet.

    I am not too keen on heat pumps, which is another question to sort out so can anyone list the manufacturers that are using or about to introduce AC units with this technology?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,084
    Carrier has the scroll technology in a heat pump, I'd guess A/C coming soon. Nordyne has it in cooling only too using a Panasonic rotary.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    4,985
    Some people would say that inverters were tried, and failed in convential systems in the past.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    State College, PA
    Posts
    1,055

    Hey, what's wrong with a heat pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhitim View Post
    This technology really seems to be the way to go. Do you all agree? The problem is I can't seem to find many companies using it in their residential, full size AC systems.

    I am aware of the Nordyne stuff in Maytag, Broan, Westinghouse and the like but I am hesitant to bet on these "lesser" known HVAC manufacturers. Plus they only offer it in heat pumos and only in 4 ton or less. I just discovered that Emerson has introduced the Copeland Scroll Variable Speed but nobody seems to offer it yet.

    I am not too keen on heat pumps, which is another question to sort out so can anyone list the manufacturers that are using or about to introduce AC units with this technology?
    Carrier/Bryant will be coming out with their version of the inverter in June or July of this year. I am sure that others will be following suite. But I do believe they are heat pump only.

    Mitsubishi and other ductless manufacturers have ducted models that are quite efficient and are air conditioning only. Also their technology has the advantage of being time tested. The new guys entering that market have no track record.

    Not sure if it is true or not, but I heard that Nordyne had a major recall on their inverter systems. Maybe someone can confirm this.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


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  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,384
    Carrier Greenspeed and Bryant Extreme are available now Joe. Both are inverter driven heatpumps.
    Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office

    Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    25
    Do you thinkk a heat pump, especially either the Greenspeed or Extreme would be the best choice for the climate near Sacramento, CA? Winter lows in the mid 30s with an occasional dip into the 20s and summer highs in the mid to high 90s with 7 - 10 days over 100. Low humidity and cool nights where I live (I use a whole house fan very effectively all summer).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,500
    Not from that area, but the temps sound about ideal for a heat pump!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,384
    When designed and installed properly the Greenspeed system gets very close to full nominal capacity at 17F in high speed. Based on what you posted it would be ideal for your climate, but someone needs to do load and sizing calculations as well as duct assesment.
    Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office

    Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,324
    I once lived in Roseville, near Sacramento. Those nightly delta breezes sure could take the edge off the hot days!

    I would weigh the operating cost of natural gas, if it's available in your neighborhood, vs. the cost of operating a heat pump in winter. I remember California electric rates being high. Sacramento does not get real cold but I remember it taking awhile before the weather got really hot. So the heating season, just to take the chill out of the house, could extend into the spring a bit.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    25
    I buy my electricity from the Sacramento Metropolitan Utility District (SMUD) at $0.17/KwH and even though that is expensive it is one third the cost of PG&E in my area. The real question is how do I determine if a heat pump at $0.17/KwH is more or less cost effective than using natural gas for heat? Of course if the price of electricity goes up, which it most certainly will especially relative to NG, am I painting myself into a corner?

    Do you all agree that there are no ducted AC units out there that use true variable speed compressors? Are there any being talked about for release in the near future?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,907
    At 17 cents per KWH, and a COP of 3. Your nat gas would have cost more then $1.58 per therm for a heat pump to be cheaper to use.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortdoc View Post
    Carrier Greenspeed and Bryant Extreme are available now Joe. Both are inverter driven heatpumps.
    Comfortdoc... Is correct! While I am not a carrier dealer a good friend of mine is. I saw the greenspeed in action and I was impressed by how quiet it was. I remember when some other companies tried this in years past without very much luck. So the idea was put to the weight side. Now that carrier has started to use it again, I will be curious to see how it works out.


    You can beat your last dollar that if this systems work good that the other big name brand HVAC companys will start to work on there on version again. I am a Trane dealer and remember when the comfort link t-stat came out that could control many things in your home along with the temp. In your homes. That all others jumped on board and made there own version.


    Our sales rep. For Trane said due to the tax credits being gone, the housing market going in the toilet, and the economy being bad for us to expect customers to start wanting to go back to budget grade 13 seer equipment. The problem with that is that we have not seen this and people are excited with new tech. And are wanting it installed with 15-16 seer being the average.

    So again, I am glad to see carrier take a Stand and make this system. I hope after all the bugs are worked out that all others will follow. Now the next thing is to have techs that have the proper training to work on this systems.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    State College, PA
    Posts
    1,055
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortdoc View Post
    Carrier Greenspeed and Bryant Extreme are available now Joe. Both are inverter driven heatpumps.
    I now work for a Carrier dealer, used to work for a Bryant dealer. Was told their inverter systems will not be available till June or July. Also I have not seen any installs with these units or worked on any.

    I always shy away from manufacturer's first version of stuff.

    My personal opinion is that since not no one I know has worked on them or installed them, go with the proven technology of Mitsubishi. Or go with a standard system if you already have duct owrk.
    Can someone please explain to me -
    Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to do it twice?


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