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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    west virginia
    Posts
    15
    I think most issues begin right there....noone works there way up anymore, out of college and right to a supervisor postion. no hands on.. In other countries part of the education process is hands on work in the field working on yours and others designs, Why that cannot be done here is beyond me

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,058
    Is "ucp4" street slang for the AdaptiView panel?

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    257
    I don't think you will have near the problems you anticapate.

    Back in the late 90's I had some engineers show up for my new chiller plant. They wanted variable speed chillers with variable speed pumping through the evaporator. No 3 -way valves...no decoulping loop....nothing to maintain minimum flow through chillers......just one huge chill water pump on a VFD and nothing else.

    Made me more than a little nervous....even made York real nervous. I was used to Tranes, primary/secondary pumping, decoupling loops, 3-way valves, and all of that stuff. We argued, we fought, we even flew around the country together looking at equipment.

    Now that plant design has become the norm. I do things I never thought I could have before. Under the right conditons I run entering condenser water within a few degrees of leaving chill water.....I run several towers off one condenser water pump....and I can get an easy 1,500-2,000 tons out of a 750 ton machine at kw/ton rates that would make me feel like a liar if I quoted them.

    You need a team you can work with and you need to pick chiller barrels and cooling tower designs that work with your climates and loads. IMHO ragging on engineers cuts both ways. I don't think an operating engineer can look himself in the mirror and feel pride if they are still advocating constant volume, 3-way valve, chill water systems. Sure such systems are easy to keep operating but they are wasteful of natural resources to the point of being negligent.

    And yes, expect to become more proficent at BAS programming than your vendor....just no way around it.

  4. #69
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    Sorry that was my mistake, we run the Tracer™ CH530 on the chillers and they use the UCP3 board. We also have a comm4 board in them for communication with the Tracer Summit BCU.

    Russ, you state you run several towers/chillers off one condenser pump. If I am reading what you are saying correctly, you run one big pump for the chilled water and one big pump for the condenser water, and these two pumps can accomodate several chillers?

    Our setup is a bit different if that is in fact what you are stating, we run individual pumps for each of our chillers. I will post a print of our plant setup here in a few.

  5. #70
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    The proposed chiller is in the bold outline on the plans and will have VFD's on both pumps and compressor:
    You can right-click the image and save it to your computer, so that you can rotate it clockwise 90 for easier reading/viewing.


  6. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,781
    Somthing that piping diagram doesn't show is valving. Where are the isolation valves located for the chillers?

  7. #72
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    The Bray Automatic Valves are located on each chillers, chilled water supply and condenser water return right at the chiller. There are no automatic valves yet on the chiller in the bold outline, but will be once it is replaced with the new chiller

  8. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,781
    Are there no valves on the pumps for service? It would be more appropriate if the isolation boundary included the chiller and associated pumps (this would aid in implementing my above shown example system, also).

  9. #74
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    Yes, there are manual valves on each side of each of the pumps. There are so many manual valves, it would be hard for me to identify them all lol.

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Jurupa Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,781
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTolerance View Post
    Yes, there are manual valves on each side of each of the pumps. There are so many manual valves, it would be hard for me to identify them all lol.
    Luckily, Manual valves can become automatic valves rather easily.

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