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  1. #14
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsma View Post
    They say all men are created equal so lets abolish progressive taxes. If a man makes a dollar an hour or a 1000, he will pay an equal rate. This would include all income including benifits from the state. This would be fair because those that are pushing for higher taxes on their fellow countrymen will be pushing higher taxes on themselves. Fair is fair.
    That would indeed be fair and I even think there may be a valid legal argument there for a court challenge.

    Unfortunately, the tax law [among others] is so badly slanted at this point I cannot see any hope of a fair fix. We have a majority of people pitted against a minority. The minority are being demonized as 'evil' rich, I guess that helps sooth the conscious of those who advocate an unfair tax rate that basically amounts to thievery.

    Flat tax with a deduction? Maybe, but it has been a political failure so far. Switching to a sales tax has fared even worse as a concept. Either one would be more or less fair compared to our current income tax, but neither is likely to pass.

    The poor have only to file a 1040 and they get free money. 'earned income credit' whether they earned any money or not. I know a guy who has been in the USA for about 15 years, has a house + a rent house with a wife and 2 kids who has never paid an income tax. Not one penny. These people aren't going to want a fair system, they are pretty happy with the way things are now.

    The progress of our progressives and their progressive income tax has been a stunning success, as far as firmly embedded policy is concerned. The fruit is a little bitter when we see we are running off the best and the brightest, and the corporations. There was a time the USA attracted these in droves. America was getting flooded with immigrants who saw the USA as a place to grow and succeed with hard work and be free and have a decent life. Nowadays we are being flooded by people who see the USA as a place to come and get free food and free housing and free medical and free money without really needing to work much. Not just immigrant, we have too many of these people here already without the new ones. The 'evil' rich and the 'evil' corporations pay the tab.

    It seems to me to be a fairly irreversible trend. I personally think it will lead to a complete unhinging of our economy at some point. And when the free-loaders start loosing the freebies they are going to be really, really mad.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  2. #15
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    Jan 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemind View Post
    If you belive group should be "taxed to the extreme" then WHAT is wrong with taxing the "wealthy" to the extreme? Or how about taxing the "middle class" to the extreme?

    That idea is pretty dumb, IMO.

    A tax should be placed so that ALL people have "skin in the game". A national sales tax, or even just a flat dollar amount per adult, is right. Implimenting a national sales tax is STILL going to be progressive like it is now. Poorer people don't spend nearly as much money as wealthy people do.

    Sin taxes are completely retarded. You are merely picking on one group to benefit another. If I smoke, get cancer and die, I am not going to collect that social security I have paid into for MANY years. My health insurance will pay the bulk of my medical treatments. I will die much younger, and will NOT be a drain on SS and medicare. I won't be procreating more future welfare dole babies, living in HUD housing, eating up foodstamps and other welfare "entitlements".

    The VAST majority of smokers are middle class. Not the rich (because it is socially unacceptable) or the poor (because they can't afford the habit).

    If you hate welfare folks, like you seem to imply, perhaps you could tell me where the last national tobacco tax hike went to? If you would say "to more "poor" folks" You would be right. It was used as funding to give more "poor" people "free" healthcare.
    Poor folks drink, smoke, use drugs and do just as many recreational things as the middle class and wealthy. I see poor folks all the time buying cigs and beer and liquor. I see them in the paper being arrested for drugs.

    They just spend their money with different priorities than us working poor or middle class folk. Ive known people who would buy their cigs and beer before they would buy something their child NEEDED....

    Of course all poor folk are not like that. There are good and responsible poor folks just like there are good and responsible working and wealthy folk.

    I dont hate welfare folks. I have no problems with my tax dollars going towards food and shelter and even clothing and other living expenses for the people who genuinely cannot support themselves.

    I am against people of all economic backgrounds who have their priorities screwed up when it comes to managing what they have.

    Cigs, alcohol... tax em to the max. They are just plain no good for anyone.

  3. #16
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Cigs, alcohol... tax em to the max. They are just plain no good for anyone.

    Same could be said for sugar. Lard. Coffee. Tea. Wait a minute.. didn't we try that one before? Back in the 1700s or something?
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  4. #17
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    Jan 2001
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    People dont get drunk on lard or tea and then take to the highway in a murderous state.

  5. #18
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    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    People dont get drunk on lard or tea and then take to the highway in a murderous state.
    Neither do they on cigarettes but you wanted that 'taxed to the max' too.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  6. #19
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Neither do they on cigarettes but you wanted that 'taxed to the max' too.
    It just a cheap excuse or trick that government uses to raise taxes. The majority of people dont smoke, so the government figures they can get away with it. Its like when States allow gambling but say they will use that money for Schools. its so hypocritical to me. If something is bad for you it shouldn't be allowed or encouraged as an excuse to raise taxes or money for the government. If something is legal to do, it should be taxed at the same rate as everything else. And if its so bad for you then try and make it illegal.

  7. #20
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    Jun 2006
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    SW MO.
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    Just my but I believe that we need to legalize medicinal marijuana and tax it.
    Discipline your child so that other parents don't have to.

    We're awl pawthetic and kweepy and can't get giwrls. That's why we fight wobots.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_in_WV View Post
    I might get blasted for this, BUT if you renounce your citizenship to get out of paying your fair share of taxes then you need stripped of your right to vote, and there needs to be a "non-citizen tax" that far exceeds what an American citizen would pay. Failure to comply will lead to immediate deportation, no questions asked and to be reinstated as a citizen you MUST go through all the process an immigrant does and will still be held accountable for said "non-citizen tax" for a duration of 5 years following the completion of such process.
    Once a citizen renounces their citizenship from the country, all rights to that citizenship end.

    My bet is he already moved all his money off shore. I believe if he wants to come back here he must get a Visa like any other foreigner.

    I suspect your going to see a lot of rich Frenchmen do the same thing now that the new government as said they will tax the "rich" at 70%.

    Which begs the question, how do you get "rich" if the government takes most of what you earn.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  9. #22
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    May 2011
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    Ripley, WV
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    Once a citizen renounces their citizenship from the country, all rights to that citizenship end.

    My bet is he already moved all his money off shore. I believe if he wants to come back here he must get a Visa like any other foreigner.

    I suspect your going to see a lot of rich Frenchmen do the same thing now that the new government as said they will tax the "rich" at 70%.

    Which begs the question, how do you get "rich" if the government takes most of what you earn.
    I didn't realize that about citizenship when I posted it. I don't think the rich should be raped on taxes, but they do need to pay a reasonable amount like the rest of us. Now I suppose "reasonable" is relative to who you ask. The highlighted section is a question I wish I had an answer for, of taxes on the middle class go up it will push me further down the ladder and away from reaching the "American Dream"

  10. #23
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_in_WV View Post
    I didn't realize that about citizenship when I posted it. I don't think the rich should be raped on taxes, but they do need to pay a reasonable amount like the rest of us. Now I suppose "reasonable" is relative to who you ask. The highlighted section is a question I wish I had an answer for, of taxes on the middle class go up it will push me further down the ladder and away from reaching the "American Dream"
    Do you know who Tom Galisano is? He use to live here in Rochester NY, he started a little company call Paychex. He's worth about 34 BILLION dollars.

    He's a really smart dude, he figured out that if he maintained a residence in NYS he was being taxed at a unreasonable rate.(we have stupid high taxes) So he moved to Florida. By doing that he saves 5 MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR.

    Now he would never renounce his citizenship, but like all rich dudes, he will try everything to protect his money. Make no mistake, it is HIS money. He worked very hard, took many risks to start Paychex and it paid off. He IS the American dream come true. I don't blame him one bit for telling the NYS Dept of Tax and Finance to go pound sand.

    The problem with the American Government, especially the Obama Administration, Is they are treating the 1% rich folks like a gold mind, to be striped of every last penny they can get there hands on. When they should be treating them like a resource.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  11. #24
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    May 2011
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    Ripley, WV
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    Do you know who Tom Galisano is? He use to live here in Rochester NY, he started a little company call Paychex. He's worth about 34 BILLION dollars.

    He's a really smart dude, he figured out that if he maintained a residence in NYS he was being taxed at a unreasonable rate.(we have stupid high taxes) So he moved to Florida. By doing that he saves 5 MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR.

    Now he would never renounce his citizenship, but like all rich dudes, he will try everything to protect his money. Make no mistake, it is HIS money. He worked very hard, took many risks to start Paychex and it paid off. He IS the American dream come true. I don't blame him one bit for telling the NYS Dept of Tax and Finance to go pound sand.

    The problem with the American Government, especially the Obama Administration, Is they are treating the 1% rich folks like a gold mind, to be striped of every last penny they can get there hands on. When they should be treating them like a resource.
    The plan seems obvious, the Government already has the poor in their pockets, and us in the middle class are already under attack and the next wave will go after the rich. Am I overthinking this thing by my belief that they want everyone depend on the government?

  12. #25
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    May 2000
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_in_WV View Post
    The plan seems obvious, the Government already has the poor in their pockets, and us in the middle class are already under attack and the next wave will go after the rich. Am I overthinking this thing by my belief that they want everyone depend on the government?



    nope, that seems to be Obama's plan
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    4,390
    The answer to all this is easy....

    Eliminate the nonFed and their henchmen the IRS...

    besides their is no law that says you have to pay an income tax, that would apply for the majority of ordinary working folks.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

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