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  1. #1
    The outfit I work for has a policy for "log sheet" data collection on every system we break into.

    This is both good and bad.
    Good because a tech has to take all the readings and these will help to keep him on track, honest and creat a paper trail for future referance.

    Bad in that it is very time consuming.
    Also bad in the fact that most of the men are NOT online here so they dont know the term: emissivity.

    They simply grab a uei IR meter and point, write down what the meter tells em.
    Or they use a single probe K lead and put it to the line or into the duct.


    Myself, I want to use the best of both worlds to log my data.
    I am looking at the Fluke 572CF meter. It does infrared, plus close focus. Plus it has a port to plug in K type probes into.
    I will probably want to get a Fluke 54 dual probe meter to go along with it on PM's where I am doing a ton of temp measurements.
    In which case I would connect two air temp probes with 20 foot leads into the 54 and get my Delta T acrss the coils. Plus it would give me a back up meter to the IR thermometor should there arise a question about what the temp somewhere REALLY IS.

    With the 572CF, I would connect a simple beaded probe and carry the Fluke pipe clamp also.
    This would enable me to simply/ quickly clamp each line I need to measure the temp on and vioalla ... I got it.

    With adjustable emissivity, I should be able to dial in when and where I can accurately use the IR feature of the meter.
    Perhaps I will need to carry "neutral" color patches which I can quickly adhere to the line or unit I wish to scan and shoot that spot, so to speak.

    I heard some guys bringing a can of flat black spray paint to use wherever they want an accurate temp reading using an IR thermometor.


    What has been your experiences for this type of task?


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    7,403
    Here's my 2 cents...
    I have a fluke pipe clamp (the good one) I use for line temps. I have a fieldpiece meter that I can use a thermocouple to get the readings. I have a few of the wire thermocouples, one liquid t-couple (has a metal rod on the end), and a head to do WB, DP, RH etc.

    Now... before the flames start on fieldpiece. They might not be the best, but they are on the upper end. Eventually they'll become my backup as I get different tools... but for now they work fine. And for what it's worth even if I cant get accuracly down to the .001 of a degree, at least I have to tools to get the temps and take the time to get the temps.
    "If you call that hard work, a koala’s life would look heroic."

    VETO PRO PAC, The Official Tool Bag of HVAC-Talk.com

    Testo... you guys rule!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
    Posts
    2,871
    When properly calibrated the UEI 256 gives great temperature readings, I’ve compared it to a cooper thermistor type thermometer and found it to be whiting half of a degree.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    196
    My Fieldpiece works great too. I have tested against the Fluke meters at my job and its right on accurate. Its also alot easier to carry one meter for volts, amps, temperature etc. I admit the Fluke seems a little tougher built, but my all in one Fieldpiece works for me.
    Knowledge is Truth.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    6,247
    I have been using a Fluke 52 II, Delta Trak IR, & the TSI Velocicalc Plus for what you are describing R-12 & they work great.

    Only issue is no data logging option on the 52 II & Delta Trak.
    Have you set up a Google alert for Carbon Monoxide yet?
    Click here to find out how.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, U.S.A.
    Posts
    473
    you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
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    2,871
    Originally posted by comfort comando
    you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.
    Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    3,468
    Originally posted by hvacpope
    Originally posted by comfort comando
    you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.
    Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.

    On maintenance checkups, everytime you put on guages you chance adding air to the system and letting some freon out, especially those techs you refer to. I had a super who told us to hold the guages till after we did some temp checks and visual checks, cause if the unit is cooling good and air flow is good (blower and condenser fan/coil) you don't have to read the guages. Use them when things don't check out.

    Also, not knowing where to put the thermometer bugs me. I still remember the newbie who I found sticking it right into the area where the A coil is. I said, "Good, now you know the temp of the coil, but what is the temp in the airstream?" He didn't have a clue as to what I meant.

    Different strokes for different folks. I wonder if the fault is with the green techs or the service managers?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
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    2,871
    Originally posted by MikeJ
    Originally posted by hvacpope
    Originally posted by comfort comando
    you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.
    Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.

    On maintenance checkups, everytime you put on guages you chance adding air to the system and letting some freon out, especially those techs you refer to. I had a super who told us to hold the guages till after we did some temp checks and visual checks, cause if the unit is cooling good and air flow is good (blower and condenser fan/coil) you don't have to read the guages. Use them when things don't check out.

    Also, not knowing where to put the thermometer bugs me. I still remember the newbie who I found sticking it right into the area where the A coil is. I said, "Good, now you know the temp of the coil, but what is the temp in the airstream?" He didn't have a clue as to what I meant.

    Different strokes for different folks. I wonder if the fault is with the green techs or the service managers?
    Another myth, most of the time your gauges are at a lower pressure than the refrigerant lines, as you probably know high pressure goes to low pressure, if anything gauges will take some of the system charges with them, I rigged a gauge to an small piece of copper pipe, it comes very handy specially when checking critically charged system like water source heat pumps.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sunny So Cal!
    Posts
    649
    wow R12 sounds like the world of comfort cooling - right on!
    More exacting stuff than tis market guy packs around-
    dont know the 54 but have a pair of 52s, the infrared fluke put out that plugs into their meters VOM- and a boatload of pocket therms. Am intrigued by a 20 ft thermocouple- type K? Pricey?
    I really believe in the strength of solid base info in log books, hope that it will pan out if your coworkers arent flakes about it.

    nice new forum btw- about time.
    Look, just do your job, stay outta my way and we'll get along fine.

    Teach your kids to respect themselves and others with your actions- these little baboons will imitate you like it or not.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southern Alabama
    Posts
    448
    The infrared thermometers are best used when it's impracticable or dangerous to take measurements. You will get a more accurate reading using a contact probe.

    The Fluke 57x series are extremely expensive. I would suggest you look into the Raytek MX series probes.

    Emissivity can be a problem. I will use a black magic marker or black electrical tape on some light or shiny surfaces.

  12. #12
    I spoke with a technical rep from Omega Engineering.

    It is possible to get repeatable, consistant, duplicatable temp measurements with people in the field is to have EVERYONE educated as to where, when and how to take their measurements!
    Whether we use Fluke 50 series dual probe thermometers or single probe insturements ... the thing we need to have everyone doing is BEING ON THE SAME PAGE!!!

    Personally, the cost is NOT an issue. The fact of getting in the system then off the system is proper time and with PROPER data ... THAT is where the value comes from! Not in saving a buck or two in meters!!!

    Anyone who thinks differently is just a simpleton.


    We have 22 trucks. TWENTY TWO MEN WITH TOOLS!!!

    And frankly, that's a frightening thing when you consider the various possibilities of how many screw-ups we can have when everyone is using differing styles and different tools taking different measurements .... ALL ON THE SAME SYSTEMS!!!

    Fluke makes a close focus IR meter which comes with a K type probe.
    I figure you can reset/adjust the emissivity of the unit on a given system and THEN use the IR part of the meter to move on doing the rest of the measurements.

    in example, masking tape is rated @ zero point 95.
    So... a tech should be able to walk up to a system, place a piece of masking tape on several spot of the system and verify the temp using the K type probe, then verify using the IR.


    I found they got a new type of "ductape" out. Black cloth. I find it most useful in sealing slit armorflex.

    This stuff should have a better light absorbing quality than even masking tape.

    We all need to experiment.


  13. #13
    as to the discussion about techs who dont use gages, much less carry thermometers on a job ... well ... good help IS hard to find.
    And since so many outfits have no clue how to keep techs ... much less educate them further ... it's a sad state of affairs.


    As far as attaching gages and introducing "air" into the systems ... and messing up the charge on smaller systems ... My gages have no loss fittings on BOTH ENDS!

    And when I tie into the pressure port to check oil pressure, I use a gadget I saw first here on "Tips & Tricks". It is a gage with adapter with a screw on valve core depressor.
    No pipe, no hose. No loss of oil nor refrigerant and no mess.


    Whenever I see guys with gage sets and the hoses all have mini ball valves up near the end ... I jus wanna scream!
    But honestly, there are more serious issues to deal with than loss of refrigerant!


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