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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Diberville, Mississippi
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    28

    Confused CVHE500 Trane Centrifugal

    I have a trane chiller model # CVHE500 that has a problem with surging after initial startup. When I switch over to this chiller, as soon as the vanes start opening the chiller starts surging very loudly. I look at the head pressure and it is at -0.1 psig. I assumed if there was air in the condenser it would be reflected in high head pressure while the machine is surging which is not the case. Also, when this machine is started, the chilled water is already down to 50F due to a redundant chiller that was already running, so not a big load on the machine. Also, the condenser water does not have a chance to pick up any heat before the machine starts surging severly, it is still around the pre-start temperature of 79F. I did notice multiple excessive purge warnings in the history alarms of the chiller. Could it have so much air in the system that the machine cannot load up to register the high condenser pressure?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,059
    Sounds like shes full of air , leave the chiller idle put the purge on and compare the actual refrigerant pressure of the chiller to a PT chart and see how close you are .
    You need to post a lot more info on the chiller if you want more help ,,,,, serial # what kind of control system etc
    This really should be posted in the chiller section too
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    25,671

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    4,388
    Quote Originally Posted by randystoker View Post
    I have a trane chiller model # CVHE500 that has a problem with surging after initial startup. When I switch over to this chiller, as soon as the vanes start opening the chiller starts surging very loudly. I look at the head pressure and it is at -0.1 psig. I assumed if there was air in the condenser it would be reflected in high head pressure while the machine is surging which is not the case. Also, when this machine is started, the chilled water is already down to 50F due to a redundant chiller that was already running, so not a big load on the machine. Also, the condenser water does not have a chance to pick up any heat before the machine starts surging severly, it is still around the pre-start temperature of 79F. I did notice multiple excessive purge warnings in the history alarms of the chiller. Could it have so much air in the system that the machine cannot load up to register the high condenser pressure?
    with R123 and 79F condenser water, you would have about 1.8" Hg vacuum which is about what you already have. i suspect that the condenser pressure that you are reading is a condenser TEMPERATURE converted to pressure rather than a real condenser pressure...put your gages on it and read the real pressure.

    never trust the display until you have verified the sensors first, then feel free to use the displayed readings for further troubleshooting.
    When I am late for work, I usually make up for it by leaving early.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
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    2,059
    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    with R123 and 79F condenser water, you would have about 1.8" Hg vacuum which is about what you already have. i suspect that the condenser pressure that you are reading is a condenser TEMPERATURE converted to pressure rather than a real condenser pressure...put your gages on it and read the real pressure.

    never trust the display until you have verified the sensors first, then feel free to use the displayed readings for further troubleshooting.
    If hes got 50 degree water running through it with the chiller off he should be way lower than 1.8" with the chiller idle if theres no air in it .
    Even if its on R11 he should still be lower he doesnt say its a R123 chiller ??
    So were P%#$@&g in the wind really
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Healey Nut View Post
    If hes got 50 degree water running through it with the chiller off he should be way lower than 1.8" with the chiller idle if theres no air in it .
    Even if its on R11 he should still be lower he doesnt say its a R123 chiller ??
    So were P%#$@&g in the wind really
    true. although he didn't specifically state it, i took his description to mean that the chiller was started...



    Quote Originally Posted by randystoker View Post
    I have a trane chiller model # CVHE500 that has a problem with surging after initial startup. When I switch over to this chiller, as soon as the vanes start opening the chiller starts surging very loudly. I look at the head pressure and it is at -0.1 psig....
    When I am late for work, I usually make up for it by leaving early.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    101
    I had one that acted like that once. Blown rupture disc.

  8. #8
    if this has the trane electronic control of any version then it is possible that the cond pressure displayed is cond temp converted to pressure, the evap pressure is a temperature conversion as well, even with the chiller off both will read a pressure close to temperature relationship if there is air or not, please post more info, machine serial number(first 4 digits is enough it will be Lxxx) and the style of control panel would be helpfull ucp II/ch530 etc

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Diberville, Mississippi
    Posts
    28

    Additional info. (chiller CVHE500)

    Here is the additional info. requested, had a time getting back to this after other high-priority jobs. The Trane chiller serial # is L09A05923, refrigerant 123, Tracer adaptiview display/software & date of manufacture of the chiller is 22 Jan 2009. After startup, as soon as the vanes start opening, the machine starts surging. One of my co-workers had a laptop hooked up, closed the vanes back down, surging stopped. As soon as he started to open the vanes slightly, the surging started again. It got worse as the vanes opened more and he closed them back down. Purge unit has repetitive alarms for excessive pump-out time. Condenser pressure shown on the adaptiview screen is not high when it starts surging.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    4,388
    Quote Originally Posted by randystoker View Post
    ...Purge unit has repetitive alarms for excessive pump-out time...
    key sentence.

    without ACTUAL numbers (pressures/temperatures/etc), it is difficult to tell what is going on for sure, but it sure sounds full of air to me.
    When I am late for work, I usually make up for it by leaving early.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Not in Iran
    Posts
    1,093

    its time

    sounds like time to leak check.,

    check economizer ., suction,. tang , purge location., may be able to just give it a good tighting., rupture disk as stated.
    no signature blast'em man blast'em
    !!!KILL THE TERRORIST!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,295
    Does your purge system run excessively or more than normal? Sounds to me like you have a leak as well. Time to hook your hot water heater up to it :P

    We have a leak on our 175ton pony Chiller and the purge runs 24/7. We are waiting till it blows up haha

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,108
    Don't get out the water heater just yet! First thing you have to do is check out the purge. Could be a very small, very cheap part that's got you all messed up and ready to spend thousands of dollars of this customer's money.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

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