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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    There is another part of the population that is uncounted....and its the younger generation who just chose never to work. I have 2 nephews and know other folks with kids or nephews or neices who are in their twenties and have never worked a day in their life..... sponging off relatives.......letting family support them...... they dont want to work......but cant get government assistance no matter how hard they try.
    You're right. They're not in the labor force.
    http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

    More info on labor force characteristics:
    http://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#self
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  2. #15
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    Hard to get more people working without more money in the system. Throw a few more Trillion in the economy and there will be jobs galore. The lead up to today's employment picture was built on borrowed money, an artificial economy. Now that the bubble burst it is going to take a lot of time for real money to be built up that will drive the economy, that is if it ever does.

    Look at Japan, what has it been, 15 years? And now with the Baby Boom working its way to retirement you are not going to get the consumption that we are used to (hopefully they are saving for retirement not spending otherwise the economy will really shrink when they are too old to work and have to live frugally).

    Europe is going to have to shrink, lot of unemployed there. China's government has been trying to keep their economy rolling by pumping in lot of the money they saved up during the good times (imagine that, a government that collects a percentage of what it needs and saves it to smooth out the dips along the economic highway, well what else could you expect from a bunch of communists) hoping for the rest of the world dig out and resume buying. Looks like the rest of the world has bigger problems and will not be in the driver seat just yet, China is slowing down will slow down the gains the world economy has been posting. It will be interesting to see what China will do with all these unemployed workers that moved to the cities though. Hard to go back once you get a taste of the good life.

    So what is going to drive employment around the world, more borrowing? A lot of governments are tightening their belts, that is a lot of dollars taken out of the economy. This is not a U.S. problem, it is a world problem. Blame technology, what better way to make a company more productive than by reducing the number of workers to provide a product.

    How can you justify not streamlining a process to get rid of jobs? Pay a dollar an hour, lot of jobs to go around then. Mind you, you will have to have some incentive to get people to take them though. And what better way than to cut off any support to those not supporting themselves? But as in China, hard to go back to nothing, basically substance living, once you have tasted the good life. The riots will make the occupy movement look like small change. Will have to control the masses then though, easy in China with a police state, harder in the U.S.

    Back to the unemployment figures, real unemployment has always been out of step with the published figures even back when I was a kid. Everybody knew it, nothing new. During harder times it got out of step more than in good times.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  3. #16
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    Back to the unemployment figures, real unemployment has always been out of step with the published figures even back when I was a kid. Everybody knew it, nothing new. During harder times it got out of step more than in good times.
    That's right. It's nothing new. But it's getting worse. As the US government invades our lives, it (and the MSM) conceals the truth with more and more misleading information.

    And while you and I know the 8.1% number is meaningless, every time the MSM reports it, it says the economy is improving. The more this is repeated, the more less-informed people believe it (including those in Congress), and the more likely they are to plunge blindly on, repeating the mistakes that got us here.

    And even though we know 8.1 is incorrect, many of us have little knowledge of which numbers are more representative of the truth, and we don't know where to look for alternate measures. I hope this thread helps to answer those questions.
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    That's right. It's nothing new. But it's getting worse. As the US government invades our lives, it (and the MSM) conceals the truth with more and more misleading information.

    And while you and I know the 8.1% number is meaningless, every time the MSM reports it, it says the economy is improving. The more this is repeated, the more less-informed people believe it (including those in Congress), and the more likely they are to plunge blindly on, repeating the mistakes that got us here.

    And even though we know 8.1 is incorrect, many of us have little knowledge of which numbers are more representative of the truth, and we don't know where to look for alternate measures. I hope this thread helps to answer those questions.
    The economy doing better and employment levels do not have to march in step. There is not much unemployment in North Dakota because the oil boom, the nation's numbers are meaningless there. The economy can grow and you can still end up with less employed. Companies get leaner and come out stronger, hiring people is not all that a desirable thing for them to do unless they really have to. Most companies on the stock exchanges are coming back with earnings that are beating investor's expectations. Why would they want to hire more people and dilute their gains? Also the more people unemployed the cheaper labor will be, it is not in their interest to see low unemployment. In the end those that are rich will get richer and those that are poor will get poorer. The days of unions holding companies hostage or of compassionate politicians spreading the wealth is over.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    The economy doing better and employment levels do not have to march in step. There is not much unemployment in North Dakota because the oil boom, the nation's numbers are meaningless there. The economy can grow and you can still end up with less employed. Companies get leaner and come out stronger, hiring people is not all that a desirable thing for them to do unless they really have to. Most companies on the stock exchanges are coming back with earnings that are beating investor's expectations. Why would they want to hire more people and dilute their gains? Also the more people unemployed the cheaper labor will be, it is not in their interest to see low unemployment. In the end those that are rich will get richer and those that are poor will get poorer. The days of unions holding companies hostage or of compassionate politicians spreading the wealth is over.
    Yes and no,keep in mind that this downturn is different from others we have had in the past! For one thing housing is dead,and employment is too slow to come back,long term it has to be a problem,time will tell. I can tell you this as the owner of many stocks,Investor expectations have been lowered on many companies reports, you just hear on the news of a big beat,in many cases the bar has been lowered. But yes companies are still making a ton of money!


    ,

  6. #19
    Thanks printer that was a pretty good explanation.

    Now let us examine this macro terms to define a consumer based economy.

    We must also include in terms of debt levels the amount lost in the housing crash which was debt and false equity based. Thats was a 10 year cycle.

    Then you have also in the private debt in credit cards from borrowing to maintain a life style.

    And then you have the ever increasing student loan debt.

    When the government speaks and says consumer spending has risen 2.9%,and little light bulb should be going off in your brain that says(inflation) by debasement of currency.Ben's hidden tax.Which detracts from any type of saving.


    This going to be a very,very long cycle of recovery.Each and every QE will have smaller and smaller effects.And will only end in more speculation on the Wall St.with more market manipulation,in hedge funds and extended inflation.

    Your opinions are most welcome.
    FEN

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    Thanks printer that was a pretty good explanation.

    Now let us examine this macro terms to define a consumer based economy.

    We must also include in terms of debt levels the amount lost in the housing crash which was debt and false equity based. Thats was a 10 year cycle.

    Then you have also in the private debt in credit cards from borrowing to maintain a life style.

    And then you have the ever increasing student loan debt.

    When the government speaks and says consumer spending has risen 2.9%,and little light bulb should be going off in your brain that says(inflation) by debasement of currency.Ben's hidden tax.Which detracts from any type of saving.


    This going to be a very,very long cycle of recovery.Each and every QE will have smaller and smaller effects.And will only end in more speculation on the Wall St.with more market manipulation,in hedge funds and extended inflation.

    Your opinions are most welcome.
    I think it is based on a system that has run out of steam, the capitalistic system. That and the monetary system that needs to see growth and inflation every year in order for the shell game that goes on with the borrowing and lending game being played. We just push the real cost to the future and as long as the music does not stop all is good.

    It works for a world that has room to expand into but we are running out of new frontiers to exploit. Once the world becomes more equalized in terms of have and have-not nations then we will see less of the gains that we have seen in the past. And then we also have the problem of the topic of this thread, too many people for too many jobs. Hopefully we can find a solution otherwise I see history showing another rise and fall but this time on a global scale.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I think it is based on a system that has run out of steam, the capitalistic system. That and the monetary system that needs to see growth and inflation every year in order for the shell game that goes on with the borrowing and lending game being played. We just push the real cost to the future and as long as the music does not stop all is good.

    It works for a world that has room to expand into but we are running out of new frontiers to exploit. Once the world becomes more equalized in terms of have and have-not nations then we will see less of the gains that we have seen in the past. And then we also have the problem of the topic of this thread, too many people for too many jobs. Hopefully we can find a solution otherwise I see history showing another rise and fall but this time on a global scale.
    Oh Dear God. The capitalists system has run out of steam??

    We need to get the socialists nannies out of our buttocks so we can get back to work,


    Capitalism is the engine that has driven all modern progress in the world, and glorified man's individual rights granted from God.

    There is no alternate system that works nearly as well.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Oh Dear God. The capitalists system has run out of steam??

    We need to get the socialists nannies out of our buttocks so we can get back to work,


    Capitalism is the engine that has driven all modern progress in the world, and glorified man's individual rights granted from God.

    There is no alternate system that works nearly as well.
    The western world were exporters and exploiters, our wealth and successes, have come from the use of others resources. This imbalance is being addressed by the one time victims.

    How do you get back to work? No political BS, show some method, not the "blame game"

    Trade/war have always driven advancement regardless of the political structure.

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    The western world were exporters and exploiters, our wealth and successes, have come from the use of others resources. This imbalance is being addressed by the one time victims.

    How do you get back to work? No political BS, show some method, not the "blame game"

    Trade/war have always driven advancement regardless of the political structure.
    Show me a single other system that works well. As opposed to capitalism. ONE.

    I am waiting.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Show me a single other system that works well. As opposed to capitalism. ONE.

    I am waiting.
    A system that works well for whom and how do I measure "works well".

    Crime rate
    Unemployment
    Debt
    Obesity
    Happiness
    Freedom??????????????

    You still not answer the question "how do get your folks back to work?"
    Ok I will ask this another way, what can the USA give the world "NOW", that world is willing to pay a premium for? and will significantly lift unemployment.

  12. #25
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    I will tell you how....War. Its the only tried and true method of reducing the population and improving the economy.

    Im not talking about a little war either.

    We cant have peace without it.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

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  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    I will tell you how....War. Its the only tried and true method of reducing the population and improving the economy.

    Im not talking about a little war either.

    We cant have peace without it.
    Your certainly, not wrong!

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