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  1. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Achicagoperator View Post
    The Chicago breakdown for stationary engineers as far as cards\titles are concerned is as follows..........1)Chief....2)Assistant Chief........3)A Card.......4)C Card.....5)Apprentice.
    Sorry for the confusion, but this is specifically for the UA.

  2. #15
    Join Date
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    new england
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    Every local is differant... Every contractor is differant... My local is 95% if not more A guys. I think Johnson may pull that B card crap on new hires they pull off the streets to help with the national accounts when busy but i've never met anbody on the service side who doesnt get the journeyman's rate. It doesn't matter who you know. You put your time in, get your liscense and get the rate.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitzyfitta View Post
    Every local is differant... Every contractor is differant... My local is 95% if not more A guys. I think Johnson may pull that B card crap on new hires they pull off the streets to help with the national accounts when busy but i've never met anbody on the service side who doesnt get the journeyman's rate. It doesn't matter who you know. You put your time in, get your liscense and get the rate.
    thats was the way it used to be in my local too, till a few rats from within started to screw things up, holding back apprentices and hiring guys from the street to do the same work for less money. sometimes I wonder why I pay dues?

  4. #17
    Johnson Controls' "Service Craftsman" a.k.a. Serviceman is based on the NSMA clasification by the same name. In your area, even if a B Card Service makes more than 80% of the A Card, JCI can still call him a Serviceman and pay him no more than the 80%. He can take all the exams he wants including the Local A Card exam, JCI doesn't have to pay him more than 80%. Carrier, Honeywell and Siemens all have similar classifications.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    U.S.A.
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    This is just another way the UA sells out the service mechanics.

    When the UA negotiates the National Agreements with JCI, HW, Siemens, Carrier, etc., they always find a way to work a "special deal" with the national corporate companies.

    Then, the UA agrees to let the same companies do their HVAC DDC and controls with non-union personnel making them basically double-breasted shops, but with the approval of the UA. Not real union like do you think?

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    Johnson Controls' "Service Craftsman" a.k.a. Serviceman is based on the NSMA clasification by the same name. In your area, even if a B Card Service makes more than 80% of the A Card, JCI can still call him a Serviceman and pay him no more than the 80%. He can take all the exams he wants including the Local A Card exam, JCI doesn't have to pay him more than 80%. Carrier, Honeywell and Siemens all have similar classifications.
    Same thing in my local. I hear that in Buffalo NY the card system got out of control and the biggest shops are seating BTJ's (a card) and hiring MES (b card). around here the MES besides getting $10+ less on the paycheck they also are excluded from the local pension and annuity, the total package runs around $32 hr.
    Dont let them downgrade you to a lesser classification, you'll never get out of it, I'll rather go back non-union than play that game.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by softtail View Post
    This is just another way the UA sells out the service mechanics.

    When the UA negotiates the National Agreements with JCI, HW, Siemens, Carrier, etc., they always find a way to work a "special deal" with the national corporate companies.

    Then, the UA agrees to let the same companies do their HVAC DDC and controls with non-union personnel making them basically double-breasted shops, but with the approval of the UA. Not real union like do you think?
    its not just the national outfits anymore, all the local shops are jumping on the bandwagon, the membership is growing like crazy but at what cost?
    UA figured many guys wont make it pass the vested time and loose the money. the contract expires in 1.5 years, lets see what happens after.

  8. #21
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    Nov 2006
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    U.S.A.
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    its not just the national outfits anymore, all the local shops are jumping on the bandwagon, the membership is growing like crazy but at what cost?
    UA figured many guys wont make it pass the vested time and loose the money. the contract expires in 1.5 years, lets see what happens after.
    Good point.

  9. #22
    When I first started at York-El Paso right before the buyout by JCI, we had our own Local which was right about $20/Hr o-t-c. York-El Paso was an unofficial branch under Albuquerque. They had their own Local. They were about $28/Hr. o-t-c, so naturally there was only 3 Jm, 5 Sm and 3 Tm. Since our wage scale was less, we were all Jm. When our Local went under and the wages became the same, guess what? The next hire was a Sm. It's all a numbers game.

  10. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by softtail View Post
    This is just another way the UA sells out the service mechanics.

    When the UA negotiates the National Agreements with JCI, HW, Siemens, Carrier, etc., they always find a way to work a "special deal" with the national corporate companies.

    Then, the UA agrees to let the same companies do their HVAC DDC and controls with non-union personnel making them basically double-breasted shops, but with the approval of the UA. Not real union like do you think?
    All of those companies specify if you work 100% on Technical Controls Systems, you're to be non-Union. According to the agreements a UA Mechanic can work on Controls, but I've seen the total contrary in R-T-W states! Non-Union mechanics or "Controls Techs" working on agreement covered HVACR work!

  11. #24
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    U.S.A.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    All of those companies specify if you work 100% on Technical Controls Systems, you're to be non-Union. According to the agreements a UA Mechanic can work on Controls, but I've seen the total contrary in R-T-W states! Non-Union mechanics or "Controls Techs" working on agreement covered HVACR work!
    Seen the national companies non-union control techs working on agreement covered HVAC and mechanical work in "non-right to work" states with no recourse from the local union's paid officers. Nobody wants to admit to it, but it is completely acceptable per the UA's approval and the local paid officers don't have enough sack to square it up or counter the UA's BS.

    Then again, the supposed union guys in these shops typically look the other way and let it happen as long as they're working. Not all of the guys, but most.

  12. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by softtail View Post
    Seen the national companies non-union control techs working on agreement covered HVAC and mechanical work in "non-right to work" states with no recourse from the local union's paid officers. Nobody wants to admit to it, but it is completely acceptable per the UA's approval and the local paid officers don't have enough sack to square it up or counter the UA's BS.

    Then again, the supposed union guys in these shops typically look the other way and let it happen as long as they're working. Not all of the guys, but most.
    Very true. It seems nobody says anything until the International reps get involved. I've seen non-permanent workforce utilized from a temp agency for covered work rather than from the Hall. It's always a numbers game. Shoot, if a signatory wants to save money just ask for 3rd or 4th year BT Apprentices!

  13. #26
    According to the UA we're "Service Techs", usually not even HVACR is put before that. Companies like Honeywell and Siemens call us "Service Fitters", Carrier and Johnson Controls call us "Service Mechanics". I don't think any of these companies call us "Service Techs" since that name has now been used for their BAS guys.
    What do you like to be called? I personally like "HVACR Mechanic".

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