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Thread: obama

  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    Im confused here? You think Capitalism is the wrong path and will eventually lead to our destruction, then you confess your have no idea what your talking about and have no solution to, what you perceive as, a problem.

    If you have no idea what your talking about, why are you even commenting?

    seriously, if Capitalism is a problem, shouldn't you be looking for somewhere else to live?
    If my family wasn't here I would be gone...this country has gone off the deep end, and no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. We have everyone blaming the "other" party for everything happening when really it's been both parties screwing everything up for decades.

    I love this country, I was raised to be patriotic, and would love nothing more than for America to come out of this downward spiral but I was also raised to do what's right...and blaming everyone else but yourself is not doing the right thing.

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    If my family wasn't here I would be gone...this country has gone off the deep end, and no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. We have everyone blaming the "other" party for everything happening when really it's been both parties screwing everything up for decades.

    I love this country, I was raised to be patriotic, and would love nothing more than for America to come out of this downward spiral but I was also raised to do what's right...and blaming everyone else but yourself is not doing the right thing.
    so instead of getting involved and coming up with a solution, your answer is to bail out.

    Nothing says Patriotic like running

    so lets go the other way. Serious question? What economic/political systems have you seen in the last 500 years that HAVE WORKED
    If you can come up with a better system than Capitalism, your about to get the Nobel Peace Price for Economics
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  3. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    so instead of getting involved and coming up with a solution, your answer is to bail out.

    Nothing says Patriotic like running

    so lets go the other way. Serious question? What economic/political systems have you seen in the last 500 years that HAVE WORKED
    If you can come up with a better system than Capitalism, your about to get the Nobel Peace Price for Economics
    Can you please explained "WORKED"
    The world spins regardless, so all systems work.

  4. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Can you please explained "WORKED"
    The world spins regardless, so all systems work.
    ok, a system that has given the common man/women an opportunity to succeed with as little interference from government.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    ok, a system that has given the common man/women an opportunity to succeed with as little interference from government.
    Well written
    "a system that has given the common man/women an opportunity to succeed".

    That part of the statement, i certainly can agree with, the method is where the arguments lie.

    If we look at Sweden for example as close to being communist, without being communist, Freedom is still available to the people (to change the govt)
    They have high standard living, some very wealthy people, but lots of govt intervention. This system works because the people of Sweden show social responsibility. They trade with the world, so also show maintain some level of capitalism.

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Well written
    "a system that has given the common man/women an opportunity to succeed".

    That part of the statement, i certainly can agree with, the method is where the arguments lie.

    If we look at Sweden for example as close to being communist, without being communist, Freedom is still available to the people (to change the govt)
    They have high standard living, some very wealthy people, but lots of govt intervention. This system works because the people of Sweden show social responsibility. They trade with the world, so also show maintain some level of capitalism.
    I don't see the appeal for a massive nanny state, for an intrusive bureaucracy and punitive tax's.

    Its a popular ideology to the younger people and professors isolated in university settings but given a choice most Americans want a limited government with powers enumerated by our constitution.

    Sweden claims to perfection are highly exaggerated. Their tax rate of 50 % plus a VAT of over 20% means that every dollar you earn, 70% goes to the government.

    Does that sound like a good idea ??

    The system "working" is subjective. Their unemployed are usually hidden in state sponsored education which is the most abused social program in Sweden.

    There is plenty of information on what actually happens there.

    No system is perfect but the people that need a Government to hold their hand from cradle to grave in order to survive do not define the success or failure of capitalism.

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by commtech77 View Post
    I don't see the appeal for a massive nanny state, for an intrusive bureaucracy and punitive tax's.

    Its a popular ideology to the younger people and professors isolated in university settings but given a choice most Americans want a limited government with powers enumerated by our constitution.

    Sweden claims to perfection are highly exaggerated. Their tax rate of 50 % plus a VAT of over 20% means that every dollar you earn, 70% goes to the government.

    Does that sound like a good idea ??

    The system "working" is subjective. Their unemployed are usually hidden in state sponsored education which is the most abused social program in Sweden.

    There is plenty of information on what actually happens there.

    No system is perfect but the people that need a Government to hold their hand from cradle to grave in order to survive do not define the success or failure of capitalism.
    Who cares how much money goes to the govt, it is how the money is used. Corruption is not massive in many socialist countries (left of centre), unlike in the states where it does seem epidemic.

    The nanny state, well that is an opinion. What choices can they not make.

    I look at what money I have to be used for pleasure. And the Swedes do know how to party/travel! So i suspect that they have greater amount of actual money to do with what they please.

    I did chose Sweden, because it is the most left and with freedom of choice.

    Sweden is not perfect, but what is? It does seem to work for them!

    I can not speak for what Americans think, all I can say is that the majority must want left wing policies, this may/may not change at the next election.

    Your constitution was written 200 years ago, times have changed since then.
    If you do not evolve you will die or become enslaved.

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Who cares how much money goes to the govt, it is how the money is used. Corruption is not massive in many socialist countries (left of centre), unlike in the states where it does seem epidemic.
    I do and so should you. First of all its not the governments money and second the governments existence is dependent on the private sector, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    The nanny state, well that is an opinion. What choices can they not make.
    No its a pretty common description of a intrusive socialistic bureaucracy that provides practically everything for it's citizens. Your assertion that " Corruption is not massive in many socialist countries " is an opinion. Feel free to post links to back up your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I look at what money I have to be used for pleasure. And the Swedes do know how to party/travel! So i suspect that they have greater amount of actual money to do with what they please.
    You "suspect" but try being objective and doing some research on what life is actually like being taxed at 70%. Believe it or not they have major issues with corruption in Sweden and misuse of tax payers funds.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I did chose Sweden, because it is the most left and with freedom of choice.
    Lol ! That sentence is a contradiction. Freedom of choice in a socialist tax hungry bureaucracy is a illusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Sweden is not perfect, but what is? It does seem to work for them!
    If they're complacent with their style of government and level of taxation more power to them, just leave it in Sweden. I don't need some nameless faceless bureaucrat making life choices for or my family.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I can not speak for what Americans think, all I can say is that the majority must want left wing policies, this may/may not change at the next election.
    How do you figure ??? Any links or data to back up your claims ? I think the majority of Americans if they didn't know before know now the ineffectiveness of left wing polices. 4 years of no GDP growth, rising prices on goods and services, wasteful spending at a record pace ( 5 trillion added to our national debt ), anemic economy, croney capitalism, unemployment on the rise and food stamp use at record levels. Why would anyone in their right mind want 4 more years of that ?

    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Your constitution was written 200 years ago, times have changed since then.
    If you do not evolve you will die or become enslaved.
    If you simply toss the Constitution because it's premise disagrees with a ill educated fringe element that's enamored with mediocrity then its not much of a Constitution is it ????

    We have ways of changing it through a Constitutional Convention. Its not easy and its designed that way. The same way our government it set up with three equal branches to make acute radical change very difficult.


    Try reading the US constitution before dismissing it.

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by commtech77 View Post
    I do and so should you. First of all its not the governments money and second the governments existence is dependent on the private sector, not the other way around.

    Money from the govt comes from the people, directly or indirectly and/or from govt investments

    No its a pretty common description of a intrusive socialistic bureaucracy that provides practically everything for it's citizens. Your assertion that " Corruption is not massive in many socialist countries " is an opinion. Feel free to post links to back up your claims.

    Why is it intrusive to provide for it citizens, center left countries do not stop you from choosing different services.
    Least corrupt countries
    http://www.infoplease.com/world/stat...countries.html
    as you can see no one is perfect, can you see social responsible counties. A even mix of socialism and capitalism.



    You "suspect" but try being objective and doing some research on what life is actually like being taxed at 70%. Believe it or not they have major issues with corruption in Sweden and misuse of tax payers funds.
    I Have been taxed more than 70%, but i was earning enough, and I had the luxuries of life.
    Sweden may have its own problems, who does not! Misuse can be reported in which ever way you want depending upon your leaning.



    Lol ! That sentence is a contradiction. Freedom of choice in a socialist tax hungry bureaucracy is a illusion.

    Why is it an illusion, they have free elections, and a wide choice of parties to choose from including the far right. With any level of freedom comes responsibility and this does mean laws.

    If they're complacent with their style of government and level of taxation more power to them, just leave it in Sweden. I don't need some nameless faceless bureaucrat making life choices for or my family.

    And that is the difference, all you care about is you, while others can look beyond self, and see what benefits the community and community need governence


    How do you figure ??? Any links or data to back up your claims ? I think the majority of Americans if they didn't know before know now the ineffectiveness of left wing polices. 4 years of no GDP growth, rising prices on goods and services, wasteful spending at a record pace ( 5 trillion added to our national debt ), anemic economy, croney capitalism, unemployment on the rise and food stamp use at record levels. Why would anyone in their right mind want 4 more years of that ?

    That is pretty simple who is in "Power", if it changes then my statement will wrong.

    I ask you this question (as I asked others) what has the States to offer the world NOW, exports, that the world is willing to pay a premium for, to reduce unemployment, and deficits.
    I am sure the sub prime problem was caused under Bush.



    If you simply toss the Constitution because it's premise disagrees with a ill educated fringe element that's enamored with mediocrity then its not much of a Constitution is it ????

    We have ways of changing it through a Constitutional Convention. Its not easy and its designed that way. The same way our government it set up with three equal branches to make acute radical change very difficult.


    Try reading the US constitution before dismissing it.
    I did not say Toss the Constitution ( I have read you founding document, wise words, but can be left to interpretation It was a document of liberalization not conservatism)but you keep referring to a document that is 200 years old, that was written for a place in time. The time has changed, you need look how this is to modernized, stop looking back start looking forward!
    I very much doubt a radical change will happen while conservatives just keeping looking back at the good old days. Do you just have a fear of change?
    Last edited by barbar; 05-07-2012 at 05:19 AM.

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I did not say Toss the Constitution ( I have read you founding document, wise words, but can be left to interpretation It was a document of liberalization not conservatism)but you keep referring to a document that is 200 years old, that was written for a place in time. The time has changed, you need look how this is to modernized, stop looking back start looking forward!
    I very much doubt a radical change will happen while conservatives just keeping looking back at the good old days. Do you just have a fear of change?
    So, breathing unfiltered air without man-made assistance is as old as mankind, does this mean we need to stop doing it because it's old and we should modernize it??

    What anything else that been around a while?? Why is it that just because some thing or concept is old, it needs replacing?? I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Our constitution will last another 200 years easily if we can get the socialists and communists out of here... Rat bastards anyway....

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by prorefco View Post
    So, breathing unfiltered air without man-made assistance is as old as mankind, does this mean we need to stop doing it because it's old and we should modernize it??

    What anything else that been around a while?? Why is it that just because some thing or concept is old, it needs replacing?? I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Our constitution will last another 200 years easily if we can get the socialists and communists out of here... Rat bastards anyway....
    No, things do not need to change, for changes sake, but times Have changed, so referencing prior to the change is just futile. So how are you going to get rid of the commies and their cronies, What do have that offers the voting populous a better choice, and how are you going to achieve it.
    Or do you want to remove all rights to those who do not share your point of view.

  12. #90
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    Commtech seems to be saying the exact same thing I would, nice job.

    as far as your "facts" about the least corrupt countries in the world, I have to say, I almost choked laughing?

    the Berlin-based organization Transparency International, Finland, Denmark, and New Zealand are perceived to be the world's least corrupt countries,
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  13. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    No, things do not need to change, for changes sake, but times Have changed, so referencing prior to the change is just futile. So how are you going to get rid of the commies and their cronies, What do have that offers the voting populous a better choice, and how are you going to achieve it.
    Or do you want to remove all rights to those who do not share your point of view.
    It's not so much about WHAT we have (need) to take power away from the commies, but who... While we have many problems in our system that leaves the barn door open for commie beasties to enter and congregate, there are a few things that could be done to greatly reduce their proliferation. First, term limits on all elected positions. Most politicians don't enter the system with greed and corruption, once they get a taste of money and power the greed sets in. The crony capitalism gets ingrained in them and then their main interest becomes getting relected.

    Secondly, government lobbying. Eliminate it! Corporations essentially buy legislation through lobbying. This is intended to eliminate (or reduce) competition and bolster sales through legislation. At the same time it reduces individual liberties.

    Case in point; Look at the whole global warming cap & tax crap. Anything a government does to address global warming (if global warming actually existed) doesn't do a thing to slow or stop it. It ONLY puts money into the pockets of politicians and corporate elites. It's another commie initiative. Universal healthcare is another one. It won't help ANY individual, it will ONLY put more money into the pockets of the rich & powerful. Yet another commie plot.

    These are just two things that should be done for starters that can have wide ranging effects. There are many other things we could do ot help but there is not enough room here to explain all...

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