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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleyann View Post
    No offence but you have absolutely no clue what I have been through

    I know it is nothing compared to women of your grandmother's generation, young lady.

    And you can take that to the bank.

    Lose the attitude if you want to be successful in life.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  2. #28
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I think "pride" in a person who has not yet demonstrated their ability in the workforce is somewhat misplaced. I hope she can perform as advertised, and that it is not merely bravado.
    What's your problem? Why are you picking on her? Who put you in charge of deciding who is and is not fit for this type of work? What makes you think you have any idea about what other people go through in their lives? It's not 1915 anymore, so terms like sexism and racism are redefined in the context of the times we are living in. If you mean to say that people today are more sensitive than perhaps you or I think they should be, then say that. But don't dismiss whatever experiences the OP may have had simply because she wasn't getting sprayed down with fire hoses or whatever.

    I normally think you're a pretty level headed and intelligent guy, whose posts I pay attention to. I do think you're getting a little out of line, especially since it's completely unprovoked.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  3. #29
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    I really don’t want to argue with anyone I was just trying to get some advice

  4. #30
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    Nov 2007
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    Sherman, TX
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    I'll chime in, and say the same thing to you, that I would say to anyone who hires into the trade with ANY physical differences from "the norm".....That goes for being female, black, hispanic, overweight, ugly, whatever.....

    It won't be enough to be "as good as everyone else".....you will have to be better.....MARKEDLY better. You will also have to grow a VERY thick skin, to be able to cope with the disrespect that you will receive....right or wrong.

    It's not MY prejudices you have to overcome.....it's those of our customers, and in some cases your peers.

    I look to my Dad as a reference. Because of medical issues, he's looked like "Einstein on Acid" since the late 60's. (Don't worry, we all tell him that to his face, and in fact he now revels in it).....

    But as such, he HAD to absolutely EXCEL at what he did, to overcome the instinctive reaction to his looks. He's 76 now, and people still seek him out for his skills.

    Buck up, you're in for a long journey.....but a journey well worth the effort if you really have what it takes.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  5. #31
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    Apr 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by prorefco View Post
    Ooo, here we are, brains AND spunk... What more could anyone want??

    Gotta respect that...
    haha i was just saying
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Rob View Post
    What's your problem? Why are you picking on her? Who put you in charge of deciding who is and is not fit for this type of work? What makes you think you have any idea about what other people go through in their lives? It's not 1915 anymore, so terms like sexism and racism are redefined in the context of the times we are living in. If you mean to say that people today are more sensitive than perhaps you or I think they should be, then say that. But don't dismiss whatever experiences the OP may have had simply because she wasn't getting sprayed down with fire hoses or whatever.

    I normally think you're a pretty level headed and intelligent guy, whose posts I pay attention to. I do think you're getting a little out of line, especially since it's completely unprovoked.
    thankyou! if that is what he means i compleatly understand, a lot of people are over sensitive but i try not to be

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    I'll chime in, and say the same thing to you, that I would say to anyone who hires into the trade with ANY physical differences from "the norm".....That goes for being female, black, hispanic, overweight, ugly, whatever.....

    It won't be enough to be "as good as everyone else".....you will have to be better.....MARKEDLY better. You will also have to grow a VERY thick skin, to be able to cope with the disrespect that you will receive....right or wrong.

    It's not MY prejudices you have to overcome.....it's those of our customers, and in some cases your peers.

    I look to my Dad as a reference. Because of medical issues, he's looked like "Einstein on Acid" since the late 60's. (Don't worry, we all tell him that to his face, and in fact he now revels in it).....

    But as such, he HAD to absolutely EXCEL at what he did, to overcome the instinctive reaction to his looks. He's 76 now, and people still seek him out for his skills.

    Buck up, you're in for a long journey.....but a journey well worth the effort if you really have what it takes.
    I really appreciate that! I know people will always say things but I get over it, it's when things get physical and my safety is endangered that it really bothers me.

  7. #33
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    Dec 2010
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    Woodbridge Twp, NJ
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    Fact is, i can teach a tech how to fix a machine..

    I CAN'T teach them how to think logically.

    I think you are displaying some traits that make you think logically as second nature. I didnt develop this until my mid to late twenties and that was because i was put in a position where i HAD TO excel at my trade-no excuses.

    Keep at it. I wish i did when i was your age.
    Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.

  8. #34
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    Apr 2010
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    Ontario
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    Please just don't be like other gals I've met in the trades.
    A mouth that would make a trucker blush.
    An attitude that says I'm the most important person here and your needs on this construction job comes second.
    ENJOY THE RIDE

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Rob View Post
    What's your problem? Why are you picking on her? Who put you in charge of deciding who is and is not fit for this type of work? What makes you think you have any idea about what other people go through in their lives? It's not 1915 anymore, so terms like sexism and racism are redefined in the context of the times we are living in. If you mean to say that people today are more sensitive than perhaps you or I think they should be, then say that. But don't dismiss whatever experiences the OP may have had simply because she wasn't getting sprayed down with fire hoses or whatever.

    I normally think you're a pretty level headed and intelligent guy, whose posts I pay attention to. I do think you're getting a little out of line, especially since it's completely unprovoked.
    Okay, let me walk you through it. Question: does helpful insight have to be "provoked?"

    Women really suffered before the 70's. THAT was sexism. On the other hand, a young woman who is 16 in the year 2012 has no concept of what it was like to be a woman previous to that time of liberation. So, my counsel is to avoid using terms like "sexism" or "racism," because compared to the times when those terms actually applied, they are virtually meaningless today.

    If you go about using that kind of term, those who have real understanding of it will perhaps laugh in your face. Our nation has virtually bent over backward and twisted itself into a pretzel trying to institutionalize equality in every way imaginable. Can that effort always bear fruit? Of course not.

    But please, a 16 year old talking about sexism? I'm sorry, that belongs in an Owen Wilson movie. Or a documentary.

    Now, I am not in the business of telling someone that they cannot do a job, even if it is obvious. For example, if a kid who is 5'5" tall and weights 250 says they want to be an astronaut, then fine. I'll let NASA tell him what the profile of a successful applicant might be. Just a hint: have you ever seen a fat astronaut? Nope, there are none.

    By the same token, we already know there are plenty of female techs in HVAC. I'd put down money that many of them are talented and perform at the same level as their male counterparts.

    There are sectors of the HVAC market where a person with superior upper body strength is 100% required. It is VERY possible that no one has ever had the guts to say ANYTHING about that part of the job. They are afraid to do so, because it is NOT politically correct to share facts with people if those facts conflict with a person's desires.

    So, someone else has to mention the unmentionable.

    Let me give you another example. I remember people asking questions in a real estate licensing class. You know what never came up? Personal safety. It was years later, at a CEU seminar that we actually heard about how many agents had been assaulted while showing properties to strangers. It's true. Once in a while in the 1960's, a male agent would be held up for his wallet, or some small thing like that. However, today the agent workforce is over 75% female, and you would not believe how many female agents are attacked every year. Could this be an issue for technicians entering the HVAC filed? Yep. But Ill bet is isn't talked about very much. Just like in real estate.

    You have to remember, schools paint the rosiest picture possible of every job they train students to perform. Independent schools are even worse. Some flight schools talk about an impending "pilot shortage," to help convince kids the same age as Haley Ann that they should get into aviation. Just $60,000 for private through multi engine commercial, they brag.

    There is no pilot shortage, and there never will be one. The female First Officer on the Colgan Air Dash-8 that crashed outside of Buffalo was making...are you ready for this? $19,000 a year.

    So, my advice to Haley, just as it would be to my niece, is this:

    1) Know that this is not like working in school, or at some school sponsored competition. There is much about our lives in this pursuit that schools leave out, either by simple omission, or by intent.

    2) This is hard, physical work in many situations. Today, it took myself and a second man to rope a compressor 30 feet up the side of a building, and carry it across the roof to the unit, and then the reverse of that later in the day.

    A man and a 16 year old female, or a 30 year old female would not have accomplished that task. If no one has told Haley this, she needs to hear it from someone. If she's okay with that, then hey, I am more than fine with that too. As long as I don't have to rely on her to do a job that requires more.

    I find it amazing that sharing information, and cautioning against a prideful attitude (as opposed to being a humble student) is interpreted as "picking on someone."

    If Haley Ann wants to be an HVAC tech, that's just fine.

    But someone has to say what others won't, just as they refuse to in aviation, real estate, or dozens of other workplace environments, where people live in fear of being sanctioned for their candor.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #36
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    May 2012
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    Philadelphia
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    My new hero!

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