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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    6

    COP for Bryant Extreme Cold Heat Pump

    My dealer is pushing for the Bryant Extreme Cold Heat Pump - 280ANV (20 SEER/13 HSPF) as we live in the Boston area. His pitch is this equipment performs efficiently below 30F opposed to traditional heat pumps. I am extremely skeptical without understanding the COP performance at the cold temp levels. Does anybody have any insight into this equipment and the COP data?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    1,991
    If this is the same as the carrier green speed look into people having issues with these. Make sure you have an installer that understands this technology. It has great performance if it works but from my carrier dealer friends I am hearing lots of break down horror stories with this new equipment.

    If you have land look into geothermal as it will have high COPs almost regardless of outdoor temperature or maybe a Mitsubishi Invertor heat pump like a PUMY/PVFY system that has been around for many more years than the Carrier/Bryant system.
    Check out my YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/skyheating1 We have customer testimonials, product reviews and more!
    Like us on FACEBOOK if you like our advice here!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for the input Sky. Yes, this system is equivalent to greenspeed and I am also concerned about the reliability of this new system. My gut is telling me to go for 16 SEER/9 HSPF heat pump with heat strips, does this sound like a better option? Any recommendations on equipment? I can then do some digging on the COP data.

    Ductless and Geothermal is really expensive in my area even with incentives, hoping to using my existing ducting and find a good balance with a heat pump/oil backup.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,234
    That IS the Greenspeed unit and we have installed several in this area and have NO issues at all with them. In fact, many of the home owners have told me that if anyone wants to come and see for themselves what a great system it is they will gladly invite them to their homes. As with any system much has to do with the installation process.
    The colder it gets outside the more the compressor will speed up to utilize the heat in the osa and this past winter when the temp. was 10 degrees we had two home owners express how delighted they were and how much $ they were saving over their previous systems.
    SOOOO, that being said, contact the local Carrier distributor and ask them about any issues they are aware of.
    I have and 18 seer hp in my home and if it wasn't only 3 years old I would replace it with the Greenspeed. Just my

    Oh, and if you decide to go geo make sure whoever does it is very knowledgeable both with how to install and how to service. You will never get a payback on your investment even though your power bill will be less than a conventional system. Greenspeed is the way to go.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Woody, thanks for your feedback. I was really thinking about exploring an 10 year extended warranty (10% of cost) if i decided to go with the greenspeed. I am normally not one for "peace of mind", but in this case it may make sense.

    Does a heat strip make sense with a greenspeed unit or just depend on the inverter? My installer is not recommending one, but there may be benefits?

    1. Supplemental heat at low temps
    2. To temper the supply air when in defrost mode
    3. Emergency heat when there is a malfunction of the outside condenser

    He is recommending the following units:

    3 ton 280ANV036 and FE4003, is this air handler a good fit?

    Thanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    1,991
    Personally I always do heat strips. Even with a warranty the heat pump can break and you are without heat. E temperature may be 10 degrees below a record low and a heat pump just can't heat it it's not designed for it. The heat strips just ensure being warm. With new technology like this I would recommend the warranty, don't get me wrong I think the green speed is great. Us am always Leary of the first on the market of its kind product from ANy manufacturer. Also the Mitsubishi system I posted below is not ductless, it is a ducted Invertor driven system with a many year PROVEN reliability and track record with low temp heating.

    As for geo, in my area we can do geo for often less than the cost of a green speed if there is 1 acre or more plus geothermal will do some or all of your water heating which can easily be $400-$550 a year in electric, if somebody says geo doesn't have a payback it's because they don't know geo well enough.
    Check out my YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/skyheating1 We have customer testimonials, product reviews and more!
    Like us on FACEBOOK if you like our advice here!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyHeating View Post
    Personally I always do heat strips. Even with a warranty the heat pump can break and you are without heat. E temperature may be 10 degrees below a record low and a heat pump just can't heat it it's not designed for it. The heat strips just ensure being warm. With new technology like this I would recommend the warranty, don't get me wrong I think the green speed is great. Us am always Leary of the first on the market of its kind product from ANy manufacturer. Also the Mitsubishi system I posted below is not ductless, it is a ducted Invertor driven system with a many year PROVEN reliability and track record with low temp heating.

    As for geo, in my area we can do geo for often less than the cost of a green speed if there is 1 acre or more plus geothermal will do some or all of your water heating which can easily be $400-$550 a year in electric, if somebody says geo doesn't have a payback it's because they don't know geo well enough.
    Yes, I would recommend a heat strip for the reasons you stated and as like Skyheating explains.
    Yes, Mitsubishi makes GREAT inverter units and , quite frankly, their technology is years ahead of anything we make here.
    Yes, geo systems can save you money but the up front cost will be very difficult to ever recoop.
    Yes, I do know geo quite well and have installed several over many years and I do know of the pros and cons.
    My may not be worth any more than that but you should definetly do as much research as you can before you make your decision
    Also, the Greenspeed matchup is correct and comes with a 10 yr parts wty and for another few $100 you should be able to get a 10 year labor wty as well. A good bargain regardless of what you install.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks guys, lots of good information.

    I actaully looked at the Mitsubishi PUMY system and was turned off by the added cost of the system and rezoning the ducts as it is currently a 1 zone system. I was told the systems are designed to push air through the longer ducts and need to be zoned out to shorter distance with multiple systems. But, i will certainly get a complete quote as this installer also seems the most helpful and knowledgable. Perhaps the added efficiency and performance is worth the investment.

    What should i request for heat strips with the Greenspeed or similiar system, considering i already have oil backup and don't necesserily need it for emergency purposes?

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by jinx1832 View Post
    Thanks guys, lots of good information.

    I actaully looked at the Mitsubishi PUMY system and was turned off by the added cost of the system and rezoning the ducts as it is currently a 1 zone system. I was told the systems are designed to push air through the longer ducts and need to be zoned out to shorter distance with multiple systems. But, i will certainly get a complete quote as this installer also seems the most helpful and knowledgable. Perhaps the added efficiency and performance is worth the investment.

    What should i request for heat strips with the Greenspeed or similiar system, considering i already have oil backup and don't necesserily need it for emergency purposes?

    Thanks.
    If you have oil as a backup for your heat then all you really need the aux heat strip for would be to provide re-heat when the unit goes into defrost. Depending on how big your power wiring is and where you are located I would say a 10k should be good. Here most installers use 5k but it doesnt usually get REAL cold here.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,196
    Jinx

    As stated on another forum, you want the FE004AN(B,F)005 air handler.

    You would be cheating yourself and the system without it.

    Go to the AHRI HP directory, make the comparison yourself.

    IMO

    http://www.ahridirectory.org/ceedire...ultSearch.aspx

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks Tiger, I noticed you get around. The installer agreed with your assesment on the air handler but still not buying installing an electric toaster (in his words - heat strip) since we have an oil back-up.

    Should i absolutely insist that they replace my refrigerant lines (silver soldered) rather than flush? Of the 3 companies i have contacted the reccomendations were: 2 flush, 1 replace.

    I am going to move on to another HVAC company and will report back. More time to educate myself and will be patient until i find the right company/system.

    Going to take a look at Mitsubishi PUMY as well although it will require me to rezone my ducting.

    Thanks All.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,196
    Jinx

    You will be making a mistake not getting the heat strip. 10 KW.

    As to the refrigerant lineset, you need to know what size is existing and what size Bryant's specification is for the HP quoted.

    If they are the same, then flush. If different sizes, replace.

    IMO

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