Union VS Non-Union?

[qwerty hvac]

Keep believing that. You won't be saying that when you're old. Alcohol is very dangerous. It's a liquid, biological vacuum.

Hey I do what I want to,you smoke what you want. Dope is just as dangerous and illegal even though I think the war on drugs is a giant scam on the American public. But that is for another forum.


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[fitzyfitta]

Pipeman I thought you were a pipefitter not pipe smoker. I think anything taken in moderation is all good. Everyone had their flavor✌. FITZ

[zw17]

I love how you continue to judge me. So what, i like video games? Are you from the 1960's..? I like to get high.. atleast i dont get drunk. And what do you know about my work ethic?

Also, i never said i wanted to skip out. If work needs to be done i will see it through. I'm asking if its normal to be granted a few months or more even, of 40hrs per week. I dont want to be a ****ing drone with no time to butter my wife up and no time to relax/do things around the house/go out.

I worked for a warehouse taking all the pallets/garbage off of trailers.. I worked 10 hrs and that seemed fine. I had enough time to do what i wanted when i got home. Now, working for HVAC, you also work 10hrs, but you also have to factor in your drive to work and home. I'm sorry i dont meet your standards.. >>The era of judgment, as stated in the bible<<. You do you, and i will do me.

Keep hittin' the pipe Cheech, I'll be out making $70k+/yr.

You keep doin' you and I will gladly keep doin' me.

Best of luck to you.

[ThePipeMan]

[Wendo]

I love how you continue to judge me. So what, i like video games? Are you from the 1960's..? I like to get high.. atleast i dont get drunk. And what do you know about my work ethic?

Also, i never said i wanted to skip out. If work needs to be done i will see it through. I'm asking if its normal to be granted a few months or more even, of 40hrs per week. I dont want to be a ****ing drone with no time to butter my wife up and no time to relax/do things around the house/go out.

I worked for a warehouse taking all the pallets/garbage off of trailers.. I worked 10 hrs and that seemed fine. I had enough time to do what i wanted when i got home. Now, working for HVAC, you also work 10hrs, but you also have to factor in your drive to work and home. I'm sorry i dont meet your standards.. >>The era of judgment, as stated in the bible<<. You do you, and i will do me.

"I like to get high" You don't need to tell us your work ethic. Not sure what you mean by "The era of judgment, as stated in the Bible" maybe you could explain??

[Wendo]

Keep hittin' the pipe Cheech, I'll be out making $70k+/yr.

You keep doin' you and I will gladly keep doin' me.

Best of luck to you.

Must have been one of Sister Mary Elephant's students!!

[Big Unit]

[QUOTE=ThePipeMan;13059981]I love how you continue to judge me. So what, i like video games? Are you from the 1960's..? I like to get high.. atleast i dont get drunk. And what do you know about my work ethic?

The original question is pointless if you want to continue to "get high"! I don't know of many unions, at least around here, that don't do drug testing. And every time i've gone someone was watching so there was no tricking the test. Been called in for a few random tests. If the union doesn't test i've also been on many projects that have done there own testing. There's a reason they don't want losers on there projects...

[ibrac54]

Just because the kid smokes weed and likes to play video games doesn't mean he's a loser, or that he isn't motivated. Christ some of you people on this board are so judgmental. Yes there are potheads and drunks that are complete losers, but that doesn't mean they all are. I have good personal friends that smoke weed quite often and they are some of the most intelligent and motivated people I know.

[cavalieri85]

If you were an employer would you employ a pothead. It's purely statistical. Someone that dies drugs is more likley to be in an accident and or cost the company money in the long run. Also you stand a better chance to be successful if your drug free. I don't care what any of you do but this is a cya society.

[ThePipeMan]

Judge all you will. I asked a few simple questions and you all hop on here bashing me. I would much rather smoke weed than drink, so atleast im halfway there, am i wrong? I love to come home after a hard days worth of work and spark up a joint or take a hit from my bowl. People smoke cigarettes and crave them all day long, i dont judge them. People can do as they please. I can understand you trying to persuade me to stop, or w.e, but straight up judging people and saying **** just to say it, calls for an ass whooping in my neck of the woods. keep your mouth shut, if you have nothing nice to say.

++++++++ You can sit there and make 70k a year, but i will be the one laughing when your ass is either burnt to a crisp from nibiru passing or sucked into the ocean.

[local553]

In our hall it would be a matter of time before you get caught.And when you do get caught it cost you about two grand for rehab out of your pocket and you get one strike.And if you stay clean you are banned from alot of big jobs.A lot of our guys work at refinery and you would be banned for life there.I used to smoke a lot of bud.There does come a time to grow up.

[zw17]

Judge all you will. I asked a few simple questions and you all hop on here bashing me. I would much rather smoke weed than drink, so atleast im halfway there, am i wrong? I love to come home after a hard days worth of work and spark up a joint or take a hit from my bowl. People smoke cigarettes and crave them all day long, i dont judge them. People can do as they please. I can understand you trying to persuade me to stop, or w.e, but straight up judging people and saying **** just to say it, calls for an ass whooping in my neck of the woods. keep your mouth shut, if you have nothing nice to say.

++++++++ You can sit there and make 70k a year, but i will be the one laughing when your ass is either burnt to a crisp from nibiru passing or sucked into the ocean.

One last thing I would like to point out to you...

Your choice of relaxation (pot) is illegal. My choice of relaxation (beer) is legal.

I can drink all I want and still pass my employers drug test, you cannot.

This isn't a "What is healthier for you, pot or alcohol?" thread.

Plain and simple... If you want to make something of yourself and make a better life for your wife and kids, you can start by quitting drugs. It's both illegal and against every employers policies out there. If not I can promise you this (I have seen it a million times), you may get a decent paying job somewhere and you may hide your drug use for awhile but you will get popped sooner or later and then it's back to crappy warehouse jobs or restaurant work.

Just last week a kid got fired for being in an accident, only he didn't cause the accident, he was stopped at a red light and some lady rear ended him. Any accident in a company vehicle gets you a immediate drug test, your fault or not... he pissed hot.

Kid gave up a $60k/yr job so he could smoke pot. Does that sound stable to you? Is that the kind of life you want to provide for your wife and kids? I inspire to be a rock for my family, I don't gamble with their well being.

I am not judging you. I don't even know you. I sincerely hope you see what I am saying and you take it to heart.

Best of luck.

[allstar08]

Just because the kid smokes weed and likes to play video games doesn't mean he's a loser, or that he isn't motivated. Christ some of you people on this board are so judgmental. Yes there are potheads and drunks that are complete losers, but that doesn't mean they all are. I have good personal friends that smoke weed quite often and they are some of the most intelligent and motivated people I know.

I know plenty as well, some I was even surprised to find out, but the law is clear. I would not risk civil disobedience to smoke tuff. In this field it is your job if you get caught. However I would not call someone a loser if they smoked pot, just someone I would never hire or want on any of my jobs.

[dlove]

No one really cares who drinks or gets high. yes drug test are expected when you get hired but really are they done randomly after your hired. it costs money and most companies wont pay to get them unless they suspect something or are required by their insurance company. But the bottom line is this, if you get hurt or hurt someone else during work a co-worker or a customer, or Get a DUI .. your done. legally you will get screwed. When the hammer you drop kills someone, or the fire you set burns a house down and they do a blood test and find drug use or heavy alcohol use you will be held responsible, legally, financially and morally. Heck your partner could have done it, but don't think you wont be tested too. the cops, lawyers, insurance companies will look to hang someone, might as well be you.

When your young with no kids, wife or family. You can be reckless. but when its time to grow up and you have all those things. think what will happen when the sh%t hits the fan. Its not just your life your messing up.

this is not the eighties anymore

[ThePipeMan]

I'm sorry i flipped out, you people were just trying to help. I took it the wrong way, after second thoughts. I will not laugh when nibiru comes, because i will be the one dying.. but thats for another thread. Thanks for all your support and answers, i will now try and grow up and become the man i was sent here to be.

[Big Unit]

[QUOTE=dlove;13071561]No one really cares who drinks or gets high. yes drug test are expected when you get hired but really are they done randomly after your hired. it costs money and most companies wont pay to get them unless they suspect something or are required by their insurance company. But the bottom line is this, if you get hurt or hurt someone else during work a co-worker or a customer, or Get a DUI .. your done. legally you will get screwed. When the hammer you drop kills someone, or the fire you set burns a house down and they do a blood test and find drug use or heavy alcohol use you will be held responsible, legally, financially and morally. Heck your partner could have done it, but don't think you wont be tested too. the cops, lawyers, insurance companies will look to hang someone, might as well be you.

When your young with no kids, wife or family. You can be reckless. but when its time to grow up and you have all those things. think what will happen when the sh%t hits the fan. Its not just your life your messing up.


I've had 2 random drug tests by my union in 3 years. And off the top of my head at least 6 or 7 projects i've had to test before stepping on site. Those were all very large projects though. I suppose for the resi/small commercial side it may be more rare for job site tests.

[flange]

around these parts, peeing in the cup is part of every day life. any time you go on a new site, the cup comes out. I pay for soo many damn pee tests its nutso. Fifty bucks a pop, every time one of my guys goes to a site he hasnt been before, no pee, go home.

[MechanicallyInclined]

I recently had talks with HS, which is non-Union in this area. I was told a top Tech is higher mid-$20s. This is far below the UA SJm here, it's $35/Hr. for all you that want to say it's not all about the money, you're only fooling yourselves.


20 paid days off, $49,120/Yr., + $7,200 for Retirement, after Insurance & Retirement cost.

or

no paid time off, $67,200/Yr. + $13,248 for Retirement. No cost Health & Welfare or Retirement.


There's no comparison! Some might complain about 5% Working Assessment and $30 Dues. So what, it's a small price to pay for more than a fair deal.

[neophytes serendipity]

I recently had talks with HS, which is non-Union in this area. I was told a top Tech is higher mid-$20s. This is far below the UA SJm here, it's $35/Hr. for all you that want to say it's not all about the money, you're only fooling yourselves.


20 paid days off, $49,120/Yr., + $7,200 for Retirement, after Insurance & Retirement cost.

or

no paid time off, $67,200/Yr. + $13,248 for Retirement. No cost Health & Welfare or Retirement.


There's no comparison! Some might complain about 5% Working Assessment and $30 Dues. So what, it's a small price to pay for more than a fair deal.

Your numbers assume a 1,920 hours worked, which is essentially a full year (48 weeks at 40 hours each).

Here are some real numbers for an average member in a given local:

Average number of hours worked per member in 2006, same local: 1,202 (48 weeks at 25 hours each)

Average number of hours worked per member in 2011, in that local: 830 (48 weeks at 17.3 hours each)

Both are significantly less than your assumption, and may not qualify for a full pension credit or provide enough hours to cover quarterly health insurance requirements in that local.

Using the actual total wage package dollars per hour (inluding benefits/fringe), this means that the average working member earned $64,835 in 2006 and that same member earned $54,589 in 2011.

If the bennies are subtracted, this leaves $43,884 for 2006 W-2 wages and $34,598 for 2011 W-2 wages (average for both years).

Fringe benefits were $20,951 in 2006 ($17.43 per hour x 1,202 hours) and $20,023 in 2011 ($24.11 per hour x 830 hours). Yes, the health and pension costs have gone up a bit. This is the part of union wages that employers see. The increase in per hour benefits helps to cover the reduction in hours worked, keeping the funds solvent. Some of these benefit amounts may be reported and taxed as income under "ObamaCare".

In comparison, the average of reported Local Officer gross salary disbursement (W-2 wages) in 2006 was $106,382 and in 2011 it was $109,518. Officer bennies paid to the International have also increased dramatically.

Officer wages and bennies are paid out of the dues and fees collected, substantially paid by rank and file members, but rank and file members cannot easily (if at all) reduce the number of union officers or bennies. Union dues are easily increased though.

On the other hand, as the union wage package increases, employers may lose out on bids and the number of hours worked goes down. Employers may go out of business.

Union dues and fees paid in 2005 by the average member: $958.00 (about 2.4% of W-2 wages)

Union dues and fees paid in 2011 by the average member: $1585.00 (about 4.6% of W-2 wages)

The average number of hours worked is determined by taking the total number of reported man hours and dividing it by the total number of reported members on 12/31/(year). While this may not be 100% accurate, the pattern closely mimics the total number of hours needed to qualify for a 1 year pension credit in this particular local.

This information can be extracted from union LM2 forms and annual wage sheets.

Just like a 401(k) plan, union retirement benefits are good only if the union or fund is solvent when it is time for you to collect. A basic search for union pension plan funding will tell you that rank and file member plans are typically underfunded or dangerously underfunded while union officer pension plans are fully funded. Hmmm.

[MechanicallyInclined]

Your numbers assume a 1,920 hours worked, which is essentially a full year (48 weeks at 40 hours each).

Here are some real numbers for an average member in a given local:

Average number of hours worked per member in 2006, same local: 1,202 (48 weeks at 25 hours each)

Average number of hours worked per member in 2011, in that local: 830 (48 weeks at 17.3 hours each)

Both are significantly less than your assumption, and may not qualify for a full pension credit or provide enough hours to cover quarterly health insurance requirements in that local.

Using the actual total wage package dollars per hour (inluding benefits/fringe), this means that the average working member earned $64,835 in 2006 and that same member earned $54,589 in 2011.

If the bennies are subtracted, this leaves $43,884 for 2006 W-2 wages and $34,598 for 2011 W-2 wages (average for both years).

Fringe benefits were $20,951 in 2006 ($17.43 per hour x 1,202 hours) and $20,023 in 2011 ($24.11 per hour x 830 hours). Yes, the health and pension costs have gone up a bit. This is the part of union wages that employers see. The increase in per hour benefits helps to cover the reduction in hours worked, keeping the funds solvent. Some of these benefit amounts may be reported and taxed as income under "ObamaCare".

In comparison, the average of reported Local Officer gross salary disbursement (W-2 wages) in 2006 was $106,382 and in 2011 it was $109,518. Officer bennies paid to the International have also increased dramatically.

Officer wages and bennies are paid out of the dues and fees collected, substantially paid by rank and file members, but rank and file members cannot easily (if at all) reduce the number of union officers or bennies. Union dues are easily increased though.

On the other hand, as the union wage package increases, employers may lose out on bids and the number of hours worked goes down. Employers may go out of business.

Union dues and fees paid in 2005 by the average member: $958.00 (about 2.4% of W-2 wages)

Union dues and fees paid in 2011 by the average member: $1585.00 (about 4.6% of W-2 wages)

The average number of hours worked is determined by taking the total number of reported man hours and dividing it by the total number of reported members on 12/31/(year). While this may not be 100% accurate, the pattern closely mimics the total number of hours needed to qualify for a 1 year pension credit in this particular local.

This information can be extracted from union LM2 forms and annual wage sheets.

Just like a 401(k) plan, union retirement benefits are good only if the union or fund is solvent when it is time for you to collect. A basic search for union pension plan funding will tell you that rank and file member plans are typically underfunded or dangerously underfunded while union officer pension plans are fully funded. Hmmm.

Not sure if you're in a Local or if you are if it's even a UA Local. Those first numbers reflect working non-Union for HS here in this market, considering 2,000 Hrs. with 160 Hrs. being paid time off. No overtime was factored.
The other numbers reflect working Union for any National Sig or one of the 3 largest non-National Sigs, considering 1,980 Hrs. with no paid time off. No overtime or doubletime factored.
There's absolutely no comparison.