Union VS Non-Union?

[ThePipeMan]

I'm sorry if this topic is redundant, but i still haven't come to a conclusion on which side of the fence would be better..

A couple questions i have.

- Do you feel the long drives to work in a union job are worth it? Me, i like to play video games when good ones come out + i like to have a life after work period. How much time do you usually have after work, before you go to bed?

- I've heard conflicting story's about who makes more money.. I guess, you make commission and something else as a non union tech + you get vacation time, i believe.

- Last question, i got a DWAI when i was 17 for driving and while under the influence of marijuana. I'm not sure if this was sealed or not. I don't think it was, but, would this prohibit me from getting either job?

Thank you very much, .

[fitzyfitta]

If your worried about playing video games after work I don't think union or not really matters. Long rides to work? What's a long ride. I gladly drive my company van a hour or so each way. A DUI on your record will definately hurt if it's been less than 5 years.

[artman934]

Union V. Non Union, Round 307 DING DING DING.

1) Youre going to have to deal with travel times with almost any shop, as well as overtime that will surely cut into any plans you make during the busy season.

2) Overall, Union makes more but it all depends on the contractor, the part of the field you're in (IE residential v. commercial v. refrigeration).

3) How long ago was that? If it was 5-6 years ago and you have not screwed up since it shouldn't matter, but again that all depends on who interviews you.

[drew2128]

I'm sorry if this topic is redundant, but i still haven't come to a conclusion on which side of the fence would be better..

A couple questions i have.

- Do you feel the long drives to work in a union job are worth it? Me, i like to play video games when good ones come out + i like to have a life after work period. How much time do you usually have after work, before you go to bed?

- I've heard conflicting story's about who makes more money.. I guess, you make commission and something else as a non union tech + you get vacation time, i believe.

- Last question, i got a DWAI when i was 17 for driving and while under the influence of marijuana. I'm not sure if this was sealed or not. I don't think it was, but, would this prohibit me from getting either job?

Thank you very much, .

I honestly believe you'll work late some days union or non-union. Even if you go non-union, at one time or another they are going to ask you to work overtime when they are busy or someone needs air.

I wouldn't narrow my decision down to which one will let me play video games longer, but that's just my opinion.

[KnewYork]

Each has it pros and cons.

I was non-union for 8 years as I cut my eye teeth in this business. Five years at one company and three at the other. Other than the experience I gained I have nothing to show for either. If I had been union at the time I would have pension credits for those eight years.

I joined the union in 1980. I have a pension which the employers funded. I have had full medical coverage during my working and non-working (retired) years. I always made an above average wage. One of the advantages I see in being union is the pension. Now some locals are better than others. I happen to be in a decent one. Many non-union companies offer 401K solutions for the future, but usually the individual has to fund it 100%. Some companies will match to a certain percentage, but I think that is more the exception than the rule.

The other thing I like about being union is that your pension doesn't get compromised if you work for different companies. I worked for three different companies during my 27 active years in the union. Never missed a beat on pension because no matter the company they each contributed to my pension fund. So what I'm saying is you don't lose your pension because you were only with a company for a year or two. As long as you get vested (generally five years) in the pension plan then you have that for life.

I also believe the training and continued education is above average. I didn't apprentice in the union (I was grandfathered in as a journeyman), but I did go to journeyman classes for years.

[ThePipeMan]

The other thing I like about being union is that your pension doesn't get compromised if you work for different companies. I worked for three different companies during my 27 active years in the union. Never missed a beat on pension because no matter the company they each contributed to my pension fund. So what I'm saying is you don't lose your pension because you were only with a company for a year or two. As long as you get vested (generally five years) in the pension plan then you have that for life.

Thanks, you all were very insightful.

[Chuck]

A lot of companies do a background check so that may disqualify you depending on what kind of work it is. I don't think it will really make a difference whether it is union or not.

What do you consider a long drive?

[Allen]

Knew York could not have presented the union side better.

I'm in the local in the Washington, DC area, and I went through the same way as Knew York. The journeyman classes are excellent.

The pension is also a very important aspect that should not be overlooked, as Knew York said, all of the employers contribute to the same pension fund for that local.

Allen

[qwerty hvac]

I can give you the other side of the union story. I was in the union for 10 years doing 5 of them as an apprentice. The training is good but most of my education was in the field. The workload was good for my first year or so then after that the layoffs began. Off a few months then back to work. Then off four months and so on. Then I received my journeyman's card and full rate. Off for 6 months and out of unemployment. My union actually told me to get a job working non-union since it was so slow and so many guys were off. So I did and I was making a higher rate then my union scale. Did not have to pay dues and did not have dues taken out of my check. My first check was $400 more in take home pay for 2 weeks. So that got me thinking what to do when the hall calls me back to work? They didn't call for almost a year! Now I am settled into this new company with great bennies and constant work. I thought what good is a pension if I am not working to put any money into it. My new company is matching my 401k up to 5% and I have full family health coverage,new truck and tools and no headaches. So I took a withdrawal from the union and have not looked back. I am still in touch with a lot of the guys I use to work with and they are still ridding the bench a lot waiting for work. I can not live on $350 a week in unemployment. I have no bad feelings towards the union, they just can't provide me with full time employment. One guy I know calls it the "best part time job around"


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[KnewYork]

I guess if one has to depend on the union hall to put them to work then there could be a problem. I began my union career working for a manufacturer. I landed that job on my own and was grandfathered in as a journeyman. I have never sat on the bench and quite frankly only have been in the union hall for elections. I retired once and came back to work. Never once had to call the business agent or sit on the bench to find a job.

[zw17]

17yrs ago when I started in this trade I had a old timer tell me, "All those fancy tools, that hot rod service truck, the extra $2/hr, and those great benefits can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye... The one thing a company can NEVER take away is your education and training"

Now growing old in this trade myself I cannot stress to you how true that is. If you get the best education and training available all the rest will follow suite.

I wouldn't worry about your drive home to play video games, or who makes more money, I would worry about how you plan on learning this trade to carry you through the next 50yrs of your career.

[zw17]

I can give you the other side of the union story. I was in the union for 10 years doing 5 of them as an apprentice. The training is good but most of my education was in the field. The workload was good for my first year or so then after that the layoffs began. Off a few months then back to work. Then off four months and so on. Then I received my journeyman's card and full rate. Off for 6 months and out of unemployment. My union actually told me to get a job working non-union since it was so slow and so many guys were off. So I did and I was making a higher rate then my union scale. Did not have to pay dues and did not have dues taken out of my check. My first check was $400 more in take home pay for 2 weeks. So that got me thinking what to do when the hall calls me back to work? They didn't call for almost a year! Now I am settled into this new company with great bennies and constant work. I thought what good is a pension if I am not working to put any money into it. My new company is matching my 401k up to 5% and I have full family health coverage,new truck and tools and no headaches. So I took a withdrawal from the union and have not looked back. I am still in touch with a lot of the guys I use to work with and they are still ridding the bench a lot waiting for work. I can not live on $350 a week in unemployment. I have no bad feelings towards the union, they just can't provide me with full time employment. One guy I know calls it the "best part time job around"


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No offense meant but you are in Buffalo NY, no one is working in Buffalo and hasn't been for over two decades, union or non.

[ThePipeMan]

I'm just trying to weigh out my options. I'm looking for a great career, but still want my freedom, you know. It's hard to find anything that pays a decent amount without having a college education. I'm not really the type to go to school. I ****ed off my entire school career until about 10th and 11th grade, when history ****ed with my mind. I tried college and it just seems like to much work to catch up to where all the rest of the kids are, that actually took school seriously.

[zw17]

I'm just trying to weigh out my options. I'm looking for a great career, but still want my freedom, you know. It's hard to find anything that pays a decent amount without having a college education. I'm not really the type to go to school. I ****ed off my entire school career until about 10th and 11th grade, when history ****ed with my mind. I tried college and it just seems like to much work to catch up to where all the rest of the kids are, that actually took school seriously.

Guess what bud, you aren't going to get a free ride in life. If you work hard and go to school you will advance.

You don't wind up with a beautiful red headed wife, $40k SUV in the driveway, steaks on the table, and a nice farm house in the country on some land by sitting around playing video games and "wanting your freedom".

Sounds like it's time to kick your ass out of neutral and do something with yourself.

[qwerty hvac]

No offense meant but you are in Buffalo NY, no one is working in Buffalo and hasn't been for over two decades, union or non.

There is work here you just have to be politically connected to get it.


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[zw17]

There is work here you just have to be politically connected to get it.

If you were to draw a line from Detroit, through Buffalo, Rochester, then over to Syracuse... There is absolutely no work and I was politically connected. I could have had a very cushy job at Kodak working for a very established union contractor. Kodak is now half the size it was 10yrs ago and a fraction of what it was 30yrs ago. I highly doubt that job position would still be around so I consider my decision to flee that state when I did a great one.

I bailed out of western NY 8yrs ago and don't plan on looking back.

Except for this weekend when I go back for a funeral.

[Chuck]

If you were to draw a line from Detroit, through Buffalo, Rochester, then over to Syracuse... There is absolutely no work and I was politically connected. I could have had a very cushy job at Kodak working for a very established union contractor. Kodak is now half the size it was 10yrs ago and a fraction of what it was 30yrs ago. I highly doubt that job position would still be around so I consider my decision to flee that state when I did a great one.

I bailed out of western NY 8yrs ago and don't plan on looking back.

Except for this weekend when I go back for a funeral.

So who is fixing all the equipment in that area?

[drew2128]

Guess what bud, you aren't going to get a free ride in life. If you work hard and go to school you will advance.

You don't wind up with a beautiful red headed wife, $40k SUV in the driveway, steaks on the table, and a nice farm house in the country on some land by sitting around playing video games and "wanting your freedom".

Sounds like it's time to kick your ass out of neutral and do something with yourself.

Nice post, this field takes alot of dedication if you want to be good. Steaks

[zw17]

So who is fixing all the equipment in that area?

There is no equipment to fix when there is no industry. With no industry you have no jobs, with no jobs you have no homes.

Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse New York are a shadow of what they used to be.

All that industry either went overseas or south of the border.

I still have a buddy in local 13 in Rochester, last I spoke with him he said the big service work is dried up no new construction is taking place.

[neophytes serendipity]

I'm sorry if this topic is redundant, but i still haven't come to a conclusion on which side of the fence would be better..

A couple questions i have.

(1) Do you feel the long drives to work in a union job are worth it? Me, i like to play video games when good ones come out + i like to have a life after work period. How much time do you usually have after work, before you go to bed?

(2) I've heard conflicting story's about who makes more money.. I guess, you make commission and something else as a non union tech + you get vacation time, i believe.

(3) Last question, i got a DWAI when i was 17 for driving and while under the influence of marijuana. I'm not sure if this was sealed or not. I don't think it was, but, would this prohibit me from getting either job?

None of those questions are really relevant. I numbered them in the quote.

(1) If video game time is a primary concern, then you have other issues. Long drives are not limited to union or non-union jobs.

(2) Union hourly rates are pretty good, but those hourly rates only mean something when you have hours worked. "Working" in some union organizations has absolutely no bearing on your job related skills. There are commission based non-union "selling techs" that knock down 6 figures. There are union members on this board that claim to knock down mid 6 figures. I can only tell you about my personal union experience, and to make it short, I'd have nothing good to recommend about it at this time.

(3) There are some types of background checks that find things that you think are buried. You might want to pay someone to find out how buried your DWAI is. In any event, honesty is the best policy. Lying about a prior and being found out will be worse.