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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    Dacula, GA
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    12,616
    Military bullets have a full metal jacket so they will wound where possible and go through as many enemy troops as possible. That way you tie more troops down looking after their wounded. Simple as that. Thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    98
    Maybe there Bad Shots..lol..

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    Huh? Let's not make such wild accusations without baking them up.

    Homeland Security is nothing more than the German Brown Shirt's of past, an agency disguised to protect, but ultimately to suppress and control Americans that would rise up and take back the country they love and want to preserve as guaranteed under the barely breathing Constitution.

    You are 100% correct. Jack booted thugs with a different colored shirt and an american flag on thier sleeve.

    “We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Afton, VA / Khorat, Thailand
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    2,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    Huh? Let's not make such wild accusations without baking them up.

    Homeland Security is nothing more than the German Brown Shirt's of past, an agency disguised to protect, but ultimately to suppress and control Americans that would rise up and take back the country they love and want to preserve as guaranteed under the barely breathing Constitution.
    No doubt. Let's wake up folks and take a look around. TSA? Are you kidding me?
    Tough times don't last...Tough people do.

    Midnight Sun Astrophotography

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Why Does The Department Of Homeland Security Need 450 MILLION Hollow Point Bullets?
    Somebody out there has decided that the Department of Homeland Security needs a whole lot of ammunition. Recently it was announced that ATK was awarded a contract to provide up to 450 MILLION hollow point bullets to the Department of Homeland Security over the next five years. Is it just me, or does that sound incredibly excessive? What in the world is the DHS going to do with 450 million rounds? What possible event would ever require that much ammunition? If the United States was ever invaded, it would be the job of the U.S. military to defend the country, so that can’t be it. So what are all of those bullets for? Who does the Department of Homeland Security plan to be shooting at? According to the U.S. Census, there are only about 311 million people living in the entire country. So why does the Department of Homeland Security need 450 million rounds of ammunition? Either this is an incredible waste or there is something that the Department of Homeland Security is not telling us.

    I could understand if the U.S. military was ordering ammunition in this quantity. When you fight wars you can go through ammunition very rapidly.

    But the Department of Homeland Security is only supposed to be shooting at people very rarely.

    It simply does not make sense that they would need so much ammunition.

    The following is an excerpt from the official press release about this deal between ATK and the Department of Homeland Security….

    ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

    ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.

    “We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE,” said Ron Johnson, President of ATK’s Security and Sporting group.

    But this is not the only kind of ammo that the DHS is placing an order for.

    Business Insider is also reporting that the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to buy 175 million rifle ammunition rounds….

    We’ve also learned that the Department has an open bid for a stockpile of rifle ammo. Listed on the federal business opportunities network, they’re looking for up to 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact. The 223 is almost exactly the same round used by NATO forces, the 5.56 x 45mm.

    This all comes at a time when gun sales are absolutely going through the roof in the United States.

    Gun manufacturer Sturm, Ruger & Co. recently announced that it would be suspending new orders until May because it received orders for more than one million guns during the months of January and February.

    The following announcement about this suspension of sales comes from their official website….

    The Company’s Retailer Programs that were offered from January 1, 2012 through February 29, 2012 were very successful and generated significant orders from retailers to independent wholesale distributors for Ruger firearms.[/*]Year-to-date, the independent wholesale distributors placed orders with the Company for more than one million Ruger firearms.[/*]Despite the Company’s continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the Company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.[/*]The Company expects to resume the normal acceptance of orders by the end of May 2012.[/*][/list]Since Barack Obama first took office, gun sales in America have risen to extraordinary levels.

    Overall, more than 10 million guns were sold in the United States during 2011.

    And gun sales have continued to rise at a brisk pace in 2012. The following was recently posted on Yahoo News….

    The NSSF said that 920,840 instant criminal background checks were made in January alone, a gain of 17.3% over the same month in 2011. This now makes it the 20th consecutive month of increases. While using the number of background checks is a good measurement of sales, it doesn’t paint the whole picture as some checks are used for the purchases of multiple firearms. Also, some private transfers and sales from gun shows are exempt, making the actual number of guns sold higher.

    According to Gallup, 41 percent of all Americans said that they owned a gun in 2010. But when that question was asked again in 2011, that number had risen to 47 percent.

    Clearly, a lot of Americans are feeling the need to arm themselves.

    Unfortunately, they may find themselves short on ammunition for those guns considering how much ammo the government is buying up.

    So what is causing everyone to buy so many guns?

    Well, without a doubt we are likely to see a rise in crime as the U.S. economy continues to crumble. People want to be able to protect themselves and their families when everything falls apart. In fact, we are already starting to see some really violent home invasions in many parts of the nation. Many in the prepper movement are deeply concerned about the direction this country is headed and they want to be prepared for whatever happens.

    Of course the rising gang problem in America is a major concern too. According to the FBI there are now 1.4 million gang members living in the United States, and that number has increased by 40 percent since 2009. Many urban communities have essentially been taken over by these gangs, and many of these gangs are definitely not shy about using violence. Average Americans that live in these communities want to be able to have a fighting chance against these gangs.

    But that doesn’t explain why the DHS needs so much ammunition. Yes, our world is becoming increasingly unstable, but under what conditions does the DHS ever anticipate firing off 450 million rounds?
    You missed a few key words...."MAXIMUM" volume of 450 million rounds....and "UP TO" 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact.

    When I go to the ATM it tells me I can withdraw up to $200 at a time...am I going to withdraw the maximum amount? Usually not.

    This should make all the NRA nuts around here happy....give us more guns is what they say, until the guns are pointed at them.

    I'm not really against guns, but I don't really like them either, why should I pay for something that's gonna sit in a case and collect dust? Maybe it would be different if I lived in the city where crime is more rampant...but that's why I don't live in the city.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
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    14,307
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    You missed a few key words...."MAXIMUM" volume of 450 million rounds....and "UP TO" 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact.

    When I go to the ATM it tells me I can withdraw up to $200 at a time...am I going to withdraw the maximum amount? Usually not.

    This should make all the NRA nuts around here happy....give us more guns is what they say, until the guns are pointed at them.

    I'm not really against guns, but I don't really like them either, why should I pay for something that's gonna sit in a case and collect dust? Maybe it would be different if I lived in the city where crime is more rampant...but that's why I don't live in the city.

    so, basically what your saying is you have no experience with firearms, so your uncomfortable around them. And why would your living in a city have anything to do with firearms ownership.
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,561
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    You missed a few key words...."MAXIMUM" volume of 450 million rounds....and "UP TO" 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact.

    When I go to the ATM it tells me I can withdraw up to $200 at a time...am I going to withdraw the maximum amount? Usually not.

    This should make all the NRA nuts around here happy....give us more guns is what they say, until the guns are pointed at them.

    I'm not really against guns, but I don't really like them either, why should I pay for something that's gonna sit in a case and collect dust? Maybe it would be different if I lived in the city where crime is more rampant...but that's why I don't live in the city.
    Guns are not only for protection. I live in one of the safest cities in America according to local news??? I own a few guns. I enjoy hunting and shooting recreationally. I'm not an NRA nut. Owning guns is a privelege, not a right. I believe that hunter education classes are good and people should be required to take them before owning a gun. Not only for their safety, but for mine and my family's safety.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    so, basically what your saying is you have no experience with firearms, so your uncomfortable around them. And why would your living in a city have anything to do with firearms ownership.
    I have experience with firearms, and am very comfortable around them. You are putting words in my mouth.

    I said that to me there is no point in buying something that is just going to sit in a case and collect dust....where I live there is no need to have weapons readily available because crime is not as rampant as it is in large cities, and I don't hunt...did when I was younger but there are too many idiots in the woods these days.

    What's the point of owning a gun if you don't intend to use it? Sure I could shoot as a hobby...but I can think of many cheaper hobbies to pursue that are a lot more fun in my opinion.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,307
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I have experience with firearms, and am very comfortable around them. You are putting words in my mouth.

    I said that to me there is no point in buying something that is just going to sit in a case and collect dust....where I live there is no need to have weapons readily available because crime is not as rampant as it is in large cities, and I don't hunt...did when I was younger but there are too many idiots in the woods these days.

    What's the point of owning a gun if you don't intend to use it? Sure I could shoot as a hobby...but I can think of many cheaper hobbies to pursue that are a lot more fun in my opinion.
    my bad, the way you worded your statement made it sound like you didn't have any experience with firearms and you didn't like them. sorry
    The Last four letters


    American = I Can, Republican = I Can, Democrats = Rats


    any questions

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    East of Lyndon's
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    I have experience with firearms, and am very comfortable around them. You are putting words in my mouth.

    I said that to me there is no point in buying something that is just going to sit in a case and collect dust....where I live there is no need to have weapons readily available because crime is not as rampant as it is in large cities, and I don't hunt...did when I was younger but there are too many idiots in the woods these days.

    What's the point of owning a gun if you don't intend to use it? Sure I could shoot as a hobby...but I can think of many cheaper hobbies to pursue that are a lot more fun in my opinion.
    Guns are a better investment than a toy airplane or car. If you invest properly they go up in value unlike a lot of other hobbies!
    If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Wendo View Post
    Guns are a better investment than a toy airplane or car. If you invest properly they go up in value unlike a lot of other hobbies!
    I don't doubt that....my dad is a gun enthusiast, he shows me his guns all the time, as a matter of fact that's just about all he talks about. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I just don't get that hyped up when I see a gun..ya know like the guys drooling on the counter at the gun section in walmart.

    I guess there are things I drool over too, tools, farm equipment, trees.....yes trees, I'm trying to build a self sustained life for my family...that's my biggest obsession.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Temporaly Misplaced in NJ
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    138
    Have you ever heard of the United States Coast Guard?
    Ephesians 2:8,9

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Seattle
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    384
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    Owning guns is a privelege, not a right.
    Is it not included in the bill of rights?

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