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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    $1000 per day is NOT unreasonable.

    Think about it. That represents 4 $250 calls per day. You've already got $75 of that covered for showing up at the door and making a diagnosis. That leaves $175 to go. Not hard to do.

    4 calls a day ain't no ball-buster. But, just for the sake of discussion, let's say that you only do 3 calls a day. Fine, that's $260 per call after the SC/Diag Fee....

    Here's the point. If you're not generating anything per call, you shouldn't be there very long and can move on to the next one. If you ARE there for a significant part of the day, then you should be generating some significant revenue from it.

    It doesn't matter if you're getting paid straight commission, straight hourly, or some combination.....your truck MUST produce a given average daily revenue to justify your existence.

    I had to let a guy go a few weeks ago....He thought that $1000 per week was good. His average ticket was $82.92. You can't run a business with those numbers. Hell, you can't survive on those numbers working out of your garage !! Because at that rate, you won't even be able to afford a house WITH a garage.....

    That's business reality.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
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    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by meplumber View Post
    No offense thermojohn, you sound like you drank the kool-aid at one of the sales seminars that I went to a few years ago. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Be honest with your techs, be honest with your customers, be honest with your suppliers. Quotas are BS. Maybe if you live in New York or Miami, but in rural America, quotas turn techs into used car salesmen. I have to look my customers in the eyes at the grocery store and at the high school game.

    We don't run quotas, we preach relationships with our customers. We have managed to stay profitable in hard times through that trust relationship.

    If it works for you fine. But not me.
    ANY business has to have some sort of "quota" system. How else to you set goals to know how much business has to be done per truck, per day, to keep the doors open?

    A restaurant MUST know how many lunches it has to sell every day to stay open....if lunch sales are down, then they have no choice but to be more aggressive with dessert sales.

    A tire store MUST know how many tires it has to sell every day to stay open....if tire sales are down, then they have no choice but to be more aggressive with accessory sales.

    Business does not exist to provide jobs. Business exists to generate profit for the owners/stockholders.

    If you're not generating profits, then you must go. It's as simple as that. A business can not survive without profits.

    You can't run 3 calls a day, with an average ticket of $100. and expect to keep a job. The company doesn't need you.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  3. #16
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    Apr 2001
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    Over Here
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    Quote Originally Posted by meplumber View Post
    No offense thermojohn, you sound like you drank the kool-aid at one of the sales seminars that I went to a few years ago. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Be honest with your techs, be honest with your customers, be honest with your suppliers. Quotas are BS. Maybe if you live in New York or Miami, but in rural America, quotas turn techs into used car salesmen. I have to look my customers in the eyes at the grocery store and at the high school game.

    We don't run quotas, we preach relationships with our customers. We have managed to stay profitable in hard times through that trust relationship.

    If it works for you fine. But not me.
    No offense taken at all.... but...
    Your response clearly indicates you missed key points of what I wrote. Go back and read in detail what I said in this thread. My convictions clearly indicate the direction of my company. I am honest with my techs, my customers, my supply house, (however that applies here), and have been honest with you. In all that honesty, a daily quota still must be met or my business has to close, and I have to tell my guys to look for another job. Honestly.

    Respectfully, are you the owner or employee of this business?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,237
    I am against parts charging for the sole purpose of making money, you change parts, because they need changing. A tech should be selling value added services.
    If a company needs fabricated sales, to cover costs, then the company has its cost and sales structure wrong.
    I have found that PMs are loss leaders (was about 5% of my business turnover), but if PMs are the primary business, then charge out rate need to cover the cost associated with business, placing the burden on the tech to misrepresent themselves for a poor business model, is immoral in my opinion!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    Posts
    853
    thermo, I reread your post and did miss the intent. My apologies. Hard to read intent sometimes.

    I went into business for myself in 1997. I am now the general manager of a large institutional and commercial mechanical company. So I have been in your shoes as recently as 2 years ago.

    The point that I was trying to make, but did very poorly, is that while there has to be accountability, sales tactics don't work in rural areas as well as they do in larger population centers.

    I know to the penny, what my costs per man hour is. I know what my cost per ticket are. That information is used to determine billable rate, markup, truck charge, etc.... My service managers have that information as well. What I don't want is for my technicians to feel pressure to sell. That is not their job. I want them to focus on limited call backs. Callbacks will kill a service department quicker than anything up here. I have seen it too often. They are graded on callback percentage.

    If they see a problem, then by all means let the customer know and lets get the service manager out there to look at it, but I don't want them trying to manufacture a problem just to make their quota to feed their kids.

    Service it right the first time. Test it. Test it again. Move on to the next call.

    If I can run my service side in the 70's% clean billable, then the profit is there. When you extract install support and try to keep callbacks down, that only leaves warranty work to worry about, which is another discussion all together.

    If it works for you cool. I didn't like it as an owner. I didn't like it as a tech. I don't like it as a General Manager. Maybe if I was in a high population center, then ok. But if one of my techs drives 120 miles to get to the call and then 80 miles to the next call........he has other things to worry about.

    I think that we agree to disagree.

  6. #19
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    Apr 2001
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    meplumber, I agree with everything you wrote, except the last sentence. We don't disagree at all.

    I know to the penny, what my costs per man hour is. I know what my cost per ticket are. That information is used to determine billable rate, markup, truck charge, etc.... My service managers have that information as well. What I don't want is for my technicians to feel pressure to sell. That is not their job. I want them to focus on limited call backs. Callbacks will kill a service department quicker than anything up here. I have seen it too often. They are graded on callback percentage.

    If they see a problem, then by all means let the customer know and lets get the service manager out there to look at it, but I don't want them trying to manufacture a problem just to make their quota to feed their kids.

    Service it right the first time. Test it. Test it again. Move on to the next call.

    If I can run my service side in the 70's% clean billable, then the profit is there. When you extract install support and try to keep callbacks down, that only leaves warranty work to worry about, which is another discussion all together.
    I don't force my guys to sell... I teach them to be thorough, and to not have callbacks. Just by doing their job, they meet the requirement. Maybe it was how I said it. It is very difficult to capture the big picture on a keyboard on a forum such as this.

  7. #20
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coastal Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermojohn View Post
    It is very difficult to capture the big picture on a keyboard on a forum such as this.
    I can understand that. Same here. I am often called grumpy because I don't type what I mean.

  8. #21
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    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    18,843
    Quote Originally Posted by meplumber View Post
    I can understand that. Same here. I am often called grumpy because I don't type what I mean.
    I hereby dub both of you as official HVAC-TALK

    "gruppys."

    Live long, and prosper.
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  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine, Florida, United States
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    1,156
    Quote Originally Posted by thermojohn View Post
    It really comes down to the direction of the management.

    Long ago, i worked for a company that the owner one day brought in several cases of contactors and said everyone gets a contactor until they run out. Then it was capacitors, then 1 lb of refrigerant, whether they needed it or not. Red flag time. I had to bail because I was forced to lie and sell to make a quota.

    On the other hand, if you are properly trained how to really do a maintenance, you will be amazed how many run caps you find out of tolerance, pitted contactors, systems low on 8 oz to 1 lb refrigerant that have legitimate leaks somewhere in the system, undersized returns, undersized ductwork, leaky ductwork, old inefficient systems gobbling up their hard earned $ from utility overpayment, etc.... Finding those problems leads to you providing solutions. If you add refrigerant to a system without finding the leak, you are walking away leaving money on the table. You are also doing a disservice to the customer.

    Instead of loosing sleep at night because you are ripping the customer off, you should be loosing sleep because you have denied them the proper service they are so desparately needing from you. How much did you say you could be making? Where does that $ come from? Understand this basic mindset, and you will change your opinion from 'impossible' to 'very possible'.

    Just by doing your job, and being thorough, you have made your quota, and then some. Happy phone calls and letters from your customers will get you sent to more jobs because you are the man, and then you get a pay increase, before long you will make the connection that is is not impossible.

    Now where do you stand on how to properly perform a planned service inspection, and what direction is the company implying that you go?
    Oh Boy, did you ever work in St. Augustine? And the things that are being described here are legit and often homeowners are shocked at your attention to detail, stating that no one has ever pointed these things out.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    565
    LOL, sometimes it sucks to point things out. cause now there like well the last guy didnt say anything and ya'll been servicing it for years.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
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    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    A tire store MUST know how many tires it has to sell every day to stay open....if tire sales are down, then they have no choice but to be more aggressive with accessory sales.
    or the buy 3 get 1 free sale lol

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    Oh Boy, did you ever work in St. Augustine? And the things that are being described here are legit and often homeowners are shocked at your attention to detail, stating that no one has ever pointed these things out.
    Not St Augustine, but about 1.5 hours to the SW at the time.

    Be thorough like that and show up on time, you have a customer for life.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine, Florida, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvillehvac View Post
    LOL, sometimes it sucks to point things out. cause now there like well the last guy didnt say anything and ya'll been servicing it for years.
    I hear that one a lot!! Friday I uninstalled a LL drier that was at least 7 years old....on a brand new system. How do you explain that and why the hell did the installer not remove it........?

    On another note and a more positive theme; how do you run an organized maintenance, I think thermojohn referenced that in a previous post on this thread. I know great techs that can't sell a contactor and they don't know why. They know the customer needs one, but lack the ability to actually talk about it. Mostly they lose folks in the details about what it does. So...how do all ya'lls "top performers" get it done?

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