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  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalieri85 View Post
    Union or not its about how some contactors treat there employees. Just look at how long there techs have been there if a company cant keep guys longer than a few months than the techs are.not the problem
    Likewise....if a tech has a different company's van in his driveway when each birthday rolls around, maybe it's not the company......
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    It isn't about the ratio. I worked from JC SSA and handled a communications company's sites. JC lost this account and the communications company changed names. SR now has that account. I was a Chiller Mechanic (Union - Service HVACR Jm). SR was hiring for a Chiller Technician, same as Chiller Mechanic, except non-union.
    Of course, it's about the ratio.....

    Obviously, if the ratio is low, it's because there are only a few union shops left....those that are saddled with contracts that they can't get rid of.

    The only shops in their right mind, who would WANT to be union, are big shops that deal in big jobs.....and they can pull guys from the bench, or put them back there as they need them.....as opposed to hiring and firing between each big job.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  3. #68
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    Confused

    Other than political convictions, I just don't understand why people are SO anti-union. My dad is a republican, so I understand why he's anti-union. A big part of it is that he doesn't like any dues going to Dem campaigns. But what do unions actually do to damage the union shops? I'm not talking about public unions either cause I get it. Why are so many contractors anti-private union? Is it the compensation for the employees? I get better compensation at the union shops I've worked at, they've been much less stressful, and they seem to do better than the non-union companies I've worked for. I worked for a non-union shop recently and he was condemning other shops in general for not charging what we're (HVAC shops) worth and lowering ouur own value as an industry. Then they send me to a call and say, "Make it short and sweet. We are only making $50 on this call. Try to find something to fix so we can break even." Ooookay. I don't think all shops are created equal, union or non-union. But really, is there any non-political reason to dislike unions? Guys coming together and deciding what they think they're worth and the companies that go along with it still make a profit.

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    I wonder how many guys on this thread actually understand what their purpose as a "company employee" is ??
    My purpose as an employee is to work hard and efficiently to be profitable for my employer. By so doing, I will also profit myself. I, as an employee, have certain expectations of my employer. A safe work environment, fair compensation for work performed, and reasonably consistant work load.

    Would you agree for the most part?

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisTechMech View Post
    Other than political convictions, I just don't understand why people are SO anti-union. My dad is a republican, so I understand why he's anti-union. A big part of it is that he doesn't like any dues going to Dem campaigns. But what do unions actually do to damage the union shops? I'm not talking about public unions either cause I get it. Why are so many contractors anti-private union? Is it the compensation for the employees? I get better compensation at the union shops I've worked at, they've been much less stressful, and they seem to do better than the non-union companies I've worked for. I worked for a non-union shop recently and he was condemning other shops in general for not charging what we're (HVAC shops) worth and lowering ouur own value as an industry. Then they send me to a call and say, "Make it short and sweet. We are only making $50 on this call. Try to find something to fix so we can break even." Ooookay. I don't think all shops are created equal, union or non-union. But really, is there any non-political reason to dislike unions? Guys coming together and deciding what they think they're worth and the companies that go along with it still make a profit.
    I'd like to hear how you can separate politics from unions. Andy Stern of SEIU is one of the most frequent visitors to the Obama White House.
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  6. #71
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    I'm not trying to separate them. I know they're like "peas and carrots". I'm just curious if there are reasons other than political convictions that cause people to be anti-union.

  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisTechMech View Post
    But really, is there any non-political reason to dislike unions? Guys coming together and deciding what they think they're worth and the companies that go along with it still make a profit.
    My dislike for unions has NOTHING to do with politics.

    It is based having worked a union job, and the incidents that occured while working that job....and many other incidents over the years where union issues stood in the way of productivity. And these incidents were while I was a worker bee, not in management or ownership.

    Unions are great for protecting unproductive drones....while creating roadblocks for those with ambition and vision.

    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    My dislike for unions has NOTHING to do with politics.

    It is based having worked a union job, and the incidents that occured while working that job....and many other incidents over the years where union issues stood in the way of productivity. And these incidents were while I was a worker bee, not in management or ownership.

    Unions are great for protecting unproductive drones....while creating roadblocks for those with ambition and vision.

    I can't disagree there. I have had some similar annoyances.

  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    My dislike for unions has NOTHING to do with politics.

    It is based having worked a union job, and the incidents that occured while working that job....and many other incidents over the years where union issues stood in the way of productivity. And these incidents were while I was a worker bee, not in management or ownership.

    Unions are great for protecting unproductive drones....while creating roadblocks for those with ambition and vision.

    once again you are full of it!!! in reality the best HVAC mechanics make more money working union than the average joe sixpacks, the union does not create "roadblocks" is the other way around, the union is always hunting for the best of the best, the cream of the crop. most of my fellow union brothers came from non-union shops, they left sick and tired of false promises, low pay and benefits.
    There was a point in my life when I didnt like unions, heard so much negativity about them mostly from business owners like you, joined the union and now I know it was all lies.

  10. #75
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    Ok like it or not john you have to admit that some employers are no good forget all this union talk for a minute. If you really just want to look at every possible scenario then this will never end. Obviously some techs job hop alot I did it before but it was after being screwed by several employers cms being one of them. I finally found a company that treats me well and have been here 2 years now. The point is that employment hoes both ways its not the techs only job to fattening your wallet while you pat him like crap with terrible benifits and ridiculous hours. Treat them well and they will work there ass off for you. If you don't agree with this then maybe you are one of the employers I speak of but I hope not.

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    once again you are full of it!!!
    I've lived it....you're living in a fantasyworld.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalieri85 View Post
    Ok like it or not john you have to admit that some employers are no good forget all this union talk for a minute. If you really just want to look at every possible scenario then this will never end. Obviously some techs job hop alot I did it before but it was after being screwed by several employers cms being one of them. I finally found a company that treats me well and have been here 2 years now. The point is that employment hoes both ways its not the techs only job to fattening your wallet while you pat him like crap with terrible benifits and ridiculous hours. Treat them well and they will work there ass off for you. If you don't agree with this then maybe you are one of the employers I speak of but I hope not.
    Whether you care to admit it or not, the "tech's job" IS to generate profit for the company.....same as any other employee at any other job at any other business.

    Employees who never grasp that, are doomed to a life of believing that they are always being "screwed by the man". Once you grasp your true purpose as an employee, you will then be mentally capable of reaching your true potential.

    Nobody works "ridiculous hours" at my shop, but I do have high standards for productivity and competence.

    I do not set the standards at my shop. My CUSTOMERS do. Over a 30 year period, they have come to know what to expect when they pick up the phone and dial our number.

    There's a large pool of guys around this area, that every year, there's a different van in their driveway.

    The scenario may vary slightly, but it's usually the same.....A given employee is not producing at a level that justifies his compensation.....eventually, it generates conflict between the employee and the employer....to the point that the employee either quits or gets fired.

    Then, they move on to another company, and the cycle repeats itself. There are guys around here that have worked for every company in town, some of them two and three times.....and every spring, they get on the carousel and ride around a few times....then they get off at the next stop.

    It's always easy for employees to sit back and spout off about lousy employers.....but most of those employees have never been employers.

    In contrast, virutally EVERY employer was at one time, an employee.

    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  13. #78
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    John I'm really struggling.to understand.you right now. It seems like you think all techs are out to screw you. Do you believe that its not possible for a employer to be bad? Yes there are bad employees. But what about the good ones? What about when a good tech is treated poorly. That means he how's to work on time every day. Has great profit margins and little to no callbacks. Do they deserve poor treatment.

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