Fluorecent lights?

[tjrobb]

Most instant start ballasts are 550-600V on ignition for the arc, end of lamp to other end. This is for normal lamps, though, HO and VHO might be different, and I can't recall what program or rapid start are.

[dlove]

check the bulb against the ballast make sure they are compatible. with electronic ballast make sure you have good connections. They don't like lose connections. Make sure your are following the wiring diagram for the set up you want. have a few bulbs and ballast with you sometimes they are bad out of the box. check to make sure the voltage is correct 120 or 277 whatever, I have been changing out T12 to T8's for a few weeks now and some fixtures are just a pain in the and it comes down to a loose or bad connections. That's all there is. no mystery.

[Wendo]

First of all,it's rather hard to retrofit T8's to T5's as the bulbs are different lengths and the lampholders are different. If one the the bulbs was lit before you messed with the wiring, it was probably a wiring problem as the new electronic ballasts can work with one bulb installed. Another good practice is to always install a ballast disconnect in the fixture if you're working on it. The new code calls for it and it helps so you don't have to shut off all the fixtures to service one. I've never had much problem with bulb holders on the newer T8 and T5 fixtures. Of course, the latest and the greatest for cooler/freezer lighting is LED's! There is a huge difference in ballast quality. A name brand (like Advance, Sylvania etc.) will hold up a lot better than some of the cheap ones being installed in the lower quality fixtures.

[ICanHas]

When the electrodes are all worn out and discharge takes place form the support, they can get cherry hot and crack the glass. T5 lamps are thinner, so the cathodes are in a closer proximity to the wall and more susceptible to damage.

To prevent this, most T5 ballasts have end of life protection.

As for problems in lamp holder, arcing is a problem in refrigerated cases where corrosion in the lamp holder from condensation can cause arcing. For such applications, UL CC rated ballasts are recommended. CC rated ballasts have an arc reduction circuitry.

[gwegiel]

I have come across some ballasts in Hussmann cases that utilize the anti arc technology. (type CC). If an arc occurs anywhere including sockets the ballast will shut down that bulb or the ballast. Ive seen this with cases with shelf lighting where the bulbs are subject to being hit by customers and product Sometimes it is as simple as reseating the bulbs and cycling the power to the ballast. Worth looking into..


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[ZeroTolerance]

No need for fancy equipment to test flourescent lights/ballasts. You like to get too advanced on troubleshooting stuff :P. I understand getting all advanced on troubleshooting HVAC and Refer systems but damn JP it's just a simple fixture... LOL

Replace the bulbs, and if that doesn't solve the problem, then it's obviously a ballast issue. Now if you are talking about older fixtures you will also have starters involved. In that case I just retrofit the fixture with a newer ballast and do away with the external starter. Also, you can typically tell if the bulbs are bad or going bad by looking at the ends of them, if they are translucent grey or black then the bulb should be replaced.

You can typically test a ballast by using ohms and continuity tests via your meter.

If you really are interested in testing ballasts with a meter then get a Fluke Insulation Tester Meter.

[ICanHas]

You can't test electronic ballasts with DMM. If they're programmed start ballast, it gets more complicated.

There are two pins on each end and with programmed start, if the connection is poor, the ballast will lock out. The lamp and ballast can be fine but not work due to loose connection.

If you try to measure the voltage across instant start ballast with a meter, you may fry your meter. DMMs are not designed to take >600V @ 50,000Hz.

Dielectric grease like the kind used on spark plug boots help with prevention of socket corrosion somewhat.

[gwegiel]

Forgot to add this to my post... Milwaukee has a tool out that supposedly tests ballasts and lamps. Might not be for a refer guy but if you end up doing a lot of lighting it may help.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/news/press-releases/1171


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[jpsmith1cm]

Thanks to all who replied.

I've learned some stuff and learned that, in some cases, I might be overthinking this.

I had 3 cases in particular that the stores were struggling with and I was brought in to FIX THE D**N THING!!!!

New lamps, new ballasts and off to the races. Been up and running with no complaints since.


I think that the lighting company that the customer is employing is creating their own problems by using improper ballasts for the lamps in the cases, although I had been reading about the CC class ends and wonder if that may also be an issue.....

[gwegiel]

I would stick with CC ballasts if you could. I haven't seen first hand but have heard of cases catching fire because of a wiring/connection and the ballast not shutting down. The market I work for actually has us going case by case and replacing any non CC ballast even if it is working just fine.


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[jpsmith1cm]

I would stick with CC ballasts if you could. I haven't seen first hand but have heard of cases catching fire because of a wiring/connection and the ballast not shutting down. The market I work for actually has us going case by case and replacing any non CC ballast even if it is working just fine.


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I buy OEM parts for these cases. I don't think that the lighting contractor does.

[gwegiel]

I buy OEM parts for these cases. I don't think that the lighting contractor does.

Good, that's the best way to go.


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[qwerty hvac]

Forgot to add this to my post... Milwaukee has a tool out that supposedly tests ballasts and lamps. Might not be for a refer guy but if you end up doing a lot of lighting it may help.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/news/press-releases/1171


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I saw that at Grainger today. $249 is a lot of money. We just change the bulbs and if that does not do it then the ballast is bad. I do find a lot of lose connections when I get to the ballast. Lazy electricians.


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[Kimball]

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/CMS/Dia...-14-2210d2.pdf

[MikeySq]

d. I haven't seen first hand but have heard of cases catching fire because of a wiring/connection

I have seen it a few times especialy with lightes shelves and plugs in dry Meat cases and near produce cases with misters, 3 instances that i recall where fire department was called, one where therewas considerable dammage to case!

Mike

[craig1]

The market I work for actually has us going case by case and replacing any non CC ballast even if it is working just fine.

Refrigeration ballasts are freakin' expensive.

Go LED and don't look back.

[jpsmith1cm]

I agree, but that costs money, too!

[VTP99]

Go LED and don't look back.

The price is dropping fast. Almost all new illuminated store front signs are now LED. Same price as neon now with a lot more advantages.
For what it's worth jp you can check the output of rapid start ballast. Simply check between your start and end leads. Normally red and blue. Look for the open circuit voltage on the ballast label. Use a 1000volt rated meter. You can also check between the socket leads for the heater circuit volts. ( Hot Cathode ) Which will be low voltage. Electronic ballast stink. They do not like line spikes. They will shut down and have to have the primary volts reset.
Neon tubes are consider ( Cold Cathode ) no heaters. 15,000 volts transformers compared to say 1,000 volt ballast. Using high voltage to strike an arc.

[itsiceman]

DMMs are not designed to take >600V @ 50,000Hz.

Was looking at Fluke 80 series, 233 or 28II meters
They list 1000V and at or over 50 kHz
Is testing for voltage across the pins good for nothing with troubleshooting?

[ICanHas]

For what it's worth jp you can check the output of rapid start ballast. Simply check between your start and end leads. Normally red and blue. Look for the open circuit voltage on the ballast label. Use a 1000volt rated meter.

I have no idea what you mean by start and end.

You can also check between the socket leads for the heater circuit volts. ( Hot Cathode ) Which will be low voltage.

It doesn't work that way with most electronic ballasts. There is no heater power. The lamps are started without any pre-heat hence "instant start". There are some electronic ballasts that do pre-heat but they're less common.

Electronic ballast stink. They do not like line spikes. They will shut down and have to have the primary volts reset.

Neither do LED power supplies. Yes, some electronic ballasts are more picky about line dips. Some will flicker, some not at all, and some actually reboots.

Neon tubes are consider ( Cold Cathode ) no heaters. 15,000 volts transformers compared to say 1,000 volt ballast. Using high voltage to strike an arc.

It's more to do with the construction of the electrodes. Most T8s do not use pre-heat and they start the same way as neon.

Was looking at Fluke 80 series, 233 or 28II meters
They list 1000V and at or over 50 kHz
Is testing for voltage across the pins good for nothing with troubleshooting?

The input has some capacitance and higher frequency, more current flow through it.

Do it and it will act up and restart, fry, or lose calibration. Hey, its your tool, not mine, so do as you will.