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  1. #40
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    East Grand Forks, MN
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    against the institution of religion.
    What do you mean? I've been curious as to what people think this means.


    But I do hold on to some spititual beliefs, just nothing from any organized religion. They've done more harm than good IMO.
    What? what does this mean "organized religion"? is there an unorganized religion.

    The most poignant example would be that this of course means that no one in the military could be considered a Christian as they are in direct conflict with his teachings.
    There sure were Hebrew Armies and they sure didn't play games with their enemies.

    As none of us are perfect (ALL have sinned ad gone astray) I try to adhere to HIS commands.
    According to God's scriptures (Jesus Christ), once your saved your sealed thru the redemption of Christ. Christ redemptive work leads us to good works, we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, which God hath before ordained for us.

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech it out View Post
    Well said! That pretty much sums it all up. We can never do enough good works to be saved, is only by the Grace of God and faith in Christ that we are saved. When God looks at me He doesn't see a filthy sinner, He sees Christ, His Son, who bore ALL the penalties for my sins on the cross!
    This post is true as far as it goes, but it is just a start.

    "Good works" are required of a Christian. See the second chapter of James. Those "good works" won't save us, but someone with no "good works" cannot truthfully call himself a Christian.

    This is the key reason IMO that people get a bad taste from professing Christians. The works and deeds of Christ are missing....... and it leaves a void.

  3. #42
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    Oct 2002
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    Florida Panhandle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Maybe that is why Jesus did not write anything. He relied on the Holy Spirit to speak to everyone...even to so called non-Christians. But how do you form a religion and control the people with that.
    Is it also possible that the Jesus depicted in the bible never existed ??

    Yes I know, I know..."the bible says so"...

    But never the less there are books and writings that may show otherwise.

    There is only one rule that needs to be observed by all on this planet that will unite us...

    "Dont do to others,
    what you would not want them to do to you"


    The rest is bullshiat.


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc8 View Post

    There sure were Hebrew Armies and they sure didn't play games with their enemies.


    What does this have to do with Christianity? Did Christ ever condone military action? He taught against all forms of retaliation.

  5. #44
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    Oct 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech it out View Post
    I invite you to join me on Sunday mornings by television and watch this.....

    http://www.jhm.org/

    John Hagee is one of the best ministers I have ever heard. Open your mind and heart and be blessed by the word of God! Mankind will only disappoint you when matched up against the Bibles teachings. Myself included! We are all as filthy rags in His site, but he loves us enough anyway that he sent his Son to die and pay the price for our shortcomings.
    According to income tax statements that GETV filed with the Internal Revenue Service, the nonprofit organization drew $18.3 million in revenue in 2001, the most recent year the organization submitted a return to the IRS. That year, Hagee's total compensation package amounted to more than $1.25 million.

    Like most nonprofit organizations, GETV is obligated to disclose its finances by making IRS income tax statements, called 990 forms, available to the public. In return for complying, it isn't required to pay income taxes on revenue, business and operation taxes and property taxes. It also receives a discount on bulk mailing.

    And it is also able to sell products tax-free and at a 50 percent profit because selling religious books, tapes and albums fits within GETV's broadly stated mission, which is to "spread the gospel of Jesus Christ."

    According to the 990 forms for GETV, the organization in 2001 netted $12.3 million from donations, $4.8 million in profit from the sales of books and tapes, and an additional $1.1 million from various other sources, including rental income.

    As the nonprofit organization's president, Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.

    He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.

    The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.

    Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    18,223
    Roy, the Christian business sure is a lucrative one.

    Im sure he is laughing all the way to the bank.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Alabama
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    378
    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    According to income tax statements that GETV filed with the Internal Revenue Service, the nonprofit organization drew $18.3 million in revenue in 2001, the most recent year the organization submitted a return to the IRS. That year, Hagee's total compensation package amounted to more than $1.25 million.

    Like most nonprofit organizations, GETV is obligated to disclose its finances by making IRS income tax statements, called 990 forms, available to the public. In return for complying, it isn't required to pay income taxes on revenue, business and operation taxes and property taxes. It also receives a discount on bulk mailing.

    And it is also able to sell products tax-free and at a 50 percent profit because selling religious books, tapes and albums fits within GETV's broadly stated mission, which is to "spread the gospel of Jesus Christ."

    According to the 990 forms for GETV, the organization in 2001 netted $12.3 million from donations, $4.8 million in profit from the sales of books and tapes, and an additional $1.1 million from various other sources, including rental income.

    As the nonprofit organization's president, Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.

    He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.

    The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.

    Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.
    Yes, God has truly blessed him! I have no problem with that. The income he receives on earth will never compare with the rewards that will be given in heaven!
    II Chronicles 7:14 Galatians 2:20 Ephesians 2:8-9

  8. #47
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    According to income tax statements that GETV filed with the Internal Revenue Service, the nonprofit organization drew $18.3 million in revenue in 2001, the most recent year the organization submitted a return to the IRS. That year, Hagee's total compensation package amounted to more than $1.25 million.

    Like most nonprofit organizations, GETV is obligated to disclose its finances by making IRS income tax statements, called 990 forms, available to the public. In return for complying, it isn't required to pay income taxes on revenue, business and operation taxes and property taxes. It also receives a discount on bulk mailing.

    And it is also able to sell products tax-free and at a 50 percent profit because selling religious books, tapes and albums fits within GETV's broadly stated mission, which is to "spread the gospel of Jesus Christ."

    According to the 990 forms for GETV, the organization in 2001 netted $12.3 million from donations, $4.8 million in profit from the sales of books and tapes, and an additional $1.1 million from various other sources, including rental income.

    As the nonprofit organization's president, Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.

    He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.

    The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.

    Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.
    I know we are not to judge others but.........

    That is a little questionable IMO (OK not just a little!)

  9. #48
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    Jan 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slatts View Post
    His commands?
    As in the ten commandments given to Moses?

    Are you just an old testament sort of bloke?

    Or do you adhere to the teachings of Jesus from the new testament as well?
    Jesus quoted the ten commandments. Matter of fact, according to the scriptures (God's Words), All three were there when the 10 Commandments were given to Moses. So in essence, whether old or new testament they apply to all mankind.


    I guess that on judgement day or the rapture you'll find out if you've stayed close enough to the path.
    I call this organize religion thinking!
    The real God of the Bible (Jesus is God), teaches and it is written that we can know we have eternal life, even before we die; at our rebirth (born-again point).

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slatts View Post
    Mate, I don't think there are many true Christians.
    Probably very true.


    It's too hard.

    I'd be willing to give someone that epithet if they were willing to make the sacrifices required to live in this day and age by the teaching attributed to Jesus Christ.

    You've got to love the unlovable, help the helpless, forgive the unforgivable...

    Anyone doing anything less is just a dilettante.
    And actually it's happening daily. It's like the Holy Ghost: they go where they need to be, and you hear them, but you can't tell when they will come, and where they will go: every one that is born of God is like this. Study God's word, it's there.


    How many Christians do you know who would be willing to forgive Hitler if they came across him and take him into their homes and give him a feed?

    I know I bloody wouldn't.
    I believe in capital punishment just like the scripture's teach. Believers or not, if guilty;
    Romans 13: Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
    Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    A brother or sister in Christ (saved) can be forgiven and should be restored when they are made right with the Lord. But even unto them, there is a sin unto death: this verse is talking about praying for them (which in Hitler's case, he doesn't qualify); 1John: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    Summary: We can forgive people for their mistakes, but if laws were broken they still must pay, whether it be on Earth or Heaven. Our sins, trespasses, lawbreaking will get punished no matter what.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech it out View Post
    Well said! That pretty much sums it all up. We can never do enough good works to be saved, is only by the Grace of God and faith in Christ that we are saved. When God looks at me He doesn't see a filthy sinner, He sees Christ, His Son, who bore ALL the penalties for my sins on the cross!
    This is probably against organized religion's thinking!
    But Tech's quote is according to the scriptures.

    Question: Does organized religion really believe in the Scriptures (God's Word).

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    75
    Mostly about the experience of Coolwhip:

    Good discussion here, Probably could take several volumes to work it out.

    There is a big problem here that goes on everywhere...we set our eyes on what others do or do to us. Those folks are not the standard we should be looking at as we are all sinners and none of us are righteous in our deeds or in our hearts. WE are only righteous through the forgiveness of sin by God himself through the redemption of our souls by Christ Jesus paying for those sins with his very own life. Please read the book of "The Gospel of John" today (it is short) . WE must realize that someone made this earth as it contains what people are calling "intelligent design". It is God's creation and is all around us. The bible says that God is "self evident" . Man is without excuse if he does not figure it out.
    The scriptures tell us that no man seeks God. If you check this out and end up getting saved , it is because God is seeking you. It is through this discussion possibly.

  13. #52
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slatts View Post
    Mate, I don't think there are many true Christians.

    It's too hard.

    I'd be willing to give someone that epithet if they were willing to make the sacrifices required to live in this day and age by the teaching attributed to Jesus Christ.

    You've got to love the unlovable, help the helpless, forgive the unforgivable...

    Anyone doing anything less is just a dilettante.

    How many Christians do you know who would be willing to forgive Hitler if they came across him and take him into their homes and give him a feed?

    I know I bloody wouldn't.
    Its to late for Hitler

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