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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Creek. Oregon
    Posts
    182

    Question R-22 replacement

    I did a search and could,t find a good replacement for R22. what do you folks think about MO99 R-438A for a drop in fo R-22? anyboby having good results with it?
    a stupid question is a question you wont to ask, but don't

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    Posts
    772
    We have been looking at 427A by Forane. Haven't tried it yet, but I think we are going to this spring on a unit that would be a bastard to flush and change.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,285
    MO99 works ok on high/mid temp. i dont like the 11 degrees glide and the amount of flammables it contains.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,389
    The thing that scares me about all these "replacements" is all these replacements. If every dealer uses their own, we could be running into a number of different gases. Will make it hard for us to service these units. Do we stock a jug of everything so we can top off a pound here or there? How many recovery jugs will we need so we can repair or replace units with another gas?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    200
    Every "replacement" I have looked into so far is calling for an oil change and system flush at minimum. Also there are notable capacity losses with each different replacement which seems a little scary to me.
    Chris Anderson
    Anderson Air
    631-657-6230
    http://www.Anderson-Air.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,078
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    The thing that scares me about all these "replacements" is all these replacements. If every dealer uses their own, we could be running into a number of different gases. Will make it hard for us to service these units. Do we stock a jug of everything so we can top off a pound here or there? How many recovery jugs will we need so we can repair or replace units with another gas?
    This is something us Fridgies have had to deal with since the phaseout of R12 and R502 back in 1995.

    One of the rules of performing a refrigerant retrofit is to tag the system with the type of replacement refrigerant used in the system. This is fine if the servicers follow the rules, but as retrofits become more commonplace, what do you do when you come across a system with no indication of what's in it?

    Doing a pressure/temperature check doesn't cut it because the relationships are usually too close to call. Getting a refrigerant analysis done takes time and can be costly. What if it's marked, but you don't use that particular refrigerant? The only surefire way is to recover and recharge with new juice of the flavor you stock.

    Another downside to this is if you don't know have an ID on the gas you're recovering, it has to go into a mixed recovery tank along with all the other mystery gases.

    I have generally stuck with MP39 for R12 medium temperature work, MP66 for R12 low temp and HP80 for R502. Now I have MO99 for R22.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    between here and over there
    Posts
    453
    from my understanding that MP39 has a higher head pressures, and could over heat the compressor. Im not an expert but a friend was telling me about it. He uses it all the time with R22 systems. I work alot of residential and I dont think this would be a good fit for residential systems for that fact. please correct me if i am wrong.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,078
    Quote Originally Posted by Trehak01 View Post
    from my understanding that MP39 has a higher head pressures, and could over heat the compressor. Im not an expert but a friend was telling me about it. He uses it all the time with R22 systems. I work alot of residential and I dont think this would be a good fit for residential systems for that fact. please correct me if i am wrong.
    MP39 (R401A) is an interim replacement refrigerant for R12 systems and should not be used to replace R22. That's why we now have MO99 (R438A).

    MP39 does run at a slightly higher discharge pressure than R12, but the condensing temperature and amp draw is quite close to that of R12.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    433
    I favor R407C as a replacment for R22. You do have to do a flush and oil change but the chacteristics are very close. Like its been stated before though is that its to each techs own taste and can make our job more difficult.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    This is something us Fridgies have had to deal with since the phaseout of R12 and R502 back in 1995.

    One of the rules of performing a refrigerant retrofit is to tag the system with the type of replacement refrigerant used in the system. This is fine if the servicers follow the rules, but as retrofits become more commonplace, what do you do when you come across a system with no indication of what's in it?

    Doing a pressure/temperature check doesn't cut it because the relationships are usually too close to call. Getting a refrigerant analysis done takes time and can be costly. What if it's marked, but you don't use that particular refrigerant? The only surefire way is to recover and recharge with new juice of the flavor you stock.

    Another downside to this is if you don't know have an ID on the gas you're recovering, it has to go into a mixed recovery tank along with all the other mystery gases.

    I have generally stuck with MP39 for R12 medium temperature work, MP66 for R12 low temp and HP80 for R502. Now I have MO99 for R22.
    Have you tried 409A (R12 medium temp), and R408A (Low temp)?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    120
    R 134a is a nice replacement

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    11
    Well were im at here in ne ohio the w houses aren't even stocking any R22 repl. yet.
    Just wandering how hight it has to go before the get something in

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,078
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Comply View Post
    Have you tried 409A (R12 medium temp), and R408A (Low temp)?
    Back in the mid 1990s my main supply house offered only DuPont products so I did all my R12 retrofits with MP39 or MP66 and HP80 for R502...and of course HP81 for Manitowoc.

    Yes, I've used R409A and R408A. They're fine refrigerants, but I've never switched over to them for my general use.

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