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Thread: r22 vs. r410a

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4

    Question

    I am planning on replacing my a/c and heat system in my house. I have gotten several quotes on replacing the system. Of the 5 quotes I have recieved, 1 sells Carrier and says to go with the new r410a (Puron). The others who are selling Trane, Bryant, Amana, and American Standard say they will install either but are really pushing for the r22. I have researched some and read posts on this site about the good and bad of both. I understand that sellsman are going to push what they sell or are trying to get rid of. I would like some honest information and opinions as to what more knowledgeable people think on the issue and from people who aren't just trying to sell me their product. All 5 have suggested going with a heat pump. Here is a little info on what I am dealing with.... 1700 sq. ft. house, live in Texas (90* - 100* + all summer), mild winters, replacing everything
    Any information or opinions will be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,743
    There have been many posts here on r22 vs 410a. Do a
    search for them and read.

    R22 and 410a are both good, I would recommend first
    picking the contractor you feel most comfortable with
    and will do the best installation (most important).

    Then look at price, do not worry about r22 vs 410a,
    you will get so many opinions, your head will spin.

    The Heat Pump is a good idea, go with that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    70
    Heat pumps are very good I have one myself, but if you do have natural gas or propayne then look into a gas furnace. The cost might be better or worse but atleast you have options. As far as R-22 vs 410a read this:

    To avoid the risk that R-22 could become expensive or difficult to get when your system needs to be repaired in a few years.
    The old refrigerant R-22 will be phased out along with other ozone depleting chemicals, and both supply and demand of this chemical will be significantly affected by current and upcoming regulations. By selecting an air conditioner or heat pump that uses R-410A, you will avoid the risk associated with purchasing a product that is destined to become obsolete.

    R-410A systems can be more reliable than R-22 systems.
    R-410A air conditioning and heat pump are today’s “state of the art” systems, and utilize the most current technology available for efficient and reliable operation. The heart of every air conditioner or heat pump is the compressor, and newer systems are specifically designed to use R-410A refrigerant. They often incorporate smaller, heavier-duty “scroll-type” compressors that are quieter and operate with less damaging vibration than older compressors that operate on R-22. Since R-410A can absorb and release heat more efficiently than R-22 ever could, compressors with R-410A run cooler than R-22 systems, reducing the risk of burnout due to overheating.

    It uses a synthetic lubricant that helps to keep the system operating smoothly.
    All air-conditioning systems use an oil that circulates through the inside of the system to keep all of the parts well lubricated, just like the engine of your car. R-22 air conditioners use an oil known as “mineral oil” that has been used for decades. R-410A air conditioners use newer synthetic lubricants that are usually more soluble with the R-410A than the old mineral oils are with the older R-22 refrigerants. This means the synthetic lubricants and R-410A can mix and circulate more efficiently to keep the compressor and other moving parts lubricated, reducing wear and extending their life. Also, just as many new cars use synthetic oils because they are less likely to break down under high stress and heat, the new synthetic oils used in R-410A air conditioners are less likely to break down under extreme conditions.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    115
    oh come on now with your dino vs. synthetic oil....you are saying that the new R22 compressors do not use synthetic oil whereas the R410A compressors do?...

  5. #5

    It doesn't matter

    Which refrigerant you go for (at least in near future). A properly sized, installed and maintained air conditioning system should give you the proper comfort, and the correct bill.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    western canada
    Posts
    373
    Originally posted by subzerocool

    They often incorporate smaller, heavier-duty “scroll-type” compressors that are quieter and operate with less damaging vibration than older compressors that operate on R-22. Since R-410A can absorb and release heat more efficiently than R-22 ever could, compressors with R-410A run cooler than R-22 systems, reducing the risk of burnout due to overheating.

    Do they really run cooler and reduce the risk of burnout due to overheating?
    I thought it had to do with superheat on how cold one compressor runs.
    Cheers
    work to live not live to work

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas,Nevada
    Posts
    339
    I've been in this business for 20+ years. I performed the regular maintenance on my own home unit(r22) until January. The compressor failed but AFTER 19 years I would expect something to go. I went overto a split system with natural gas ( my former unit was a package heat pump ) running 410 and I did notice a great energy savings going to heat. As far as summer,we'll see.I just hope and pray that this unit will last 19 or more years.R22 is being phased out so I took the opertunity to do it now instead of later.The cost was a little higher to go with 410 but with the old being done away with it's only going to go up in price to service it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    40

    R22 face out on 2010 for new mfg prod

    after 2010 you can still use it for existing units, just mfg shall not mfg unit using R22. After 5-10 years R22 price may go high.
    All new materials for environment sake are not as good as old one. Vacuum tube, treated lumber, and freon.
    Syn oil is said to be better than mineral one, the mfg cost is less and the price is higher. Most of time when new things come out (except for electronics) it means a few mfg can earn more so they block others try to use sound reasons, and they will only use them when there are competitors, or you never see new tech in US when no competitor.
    I'll go R411 if my unit is high cost one, or R22 if low cost.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,564
    Quote Originally Posted by tundraotto View Post
    oh come on now with your dino vs. synthetic oil....you are saying that the new R22 compressors do not use synthetic oil whereas the R410A compressors do?...
    correct. r-22 can use either oil. r-410a must use synthetic. Mineral oil is much more forgiving to contamination and improper installation than the synthetic oil

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,773
    Quote Originally Posted by subzerocool View Post

    R-410A systems can be more reliable than R-22 systems.

    If they are installed properly, and the R22 unit isn't.

    R-410A air conditioning and heat pump are today’s “state of the art” systems, and utilize the most current technology available for efficient and reliable operation. The heart of every air conditioner or heat pump is the compressor, and newer systems are specifically designed to use R-410A refrigerant. They often incorporate smaller, heavier-duty “scroll-type” compressors that are quieter and operate with less damaging vibration than older compressors that operate on R-22.

    They been using Scroll compressors for R22 systems for years. The main difference between an R410A compressor and an R22 compressor, is the shell is made thicker, So it doesn't blow apart.

    Since R-410A can absorb and release heat more efficiently than R-22 ever could, compressors with R-410A run cooler than R-22 systems, reducing the risk of burnout due to overheating.

    As long as the condensr isn't on a roof that reaches 135°, then it loses capacity

    It uses a synthetic lubricant that helps to keep the system operating smoothly.
    All air-conditioning systems use an oil that circulates through the inside of the system to keep all of the parts well lubricated, just like the engine of your car. R-22 air conditioners use an oil known as “mineral oil” that has been used for decades.

    R-410A air conditioners use newer synthetic lubricants that are usually more soluble with the R-410A than the old mineral oils are with the older R-22 refrigerants.

    Doesn't mix better then mineral does with R22.
    Suction line velocities are kept higher on R410A systems inorder to keep good oil return.



    This means the synthetic lubricants and R-410A can mix and circulate more efficiently to keep the compressor and other moving parts lubricated, reducing wear and extending their life. Also, just as many new cars use synthetic oils because they are less likely to break down under high stress and heat, the new synthetic oils used in R-410A air conditioners are less likely to break down under extreme conditions.

    No real advantage to use R410A over R22.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8
    Compressor runs half as much to superheat the vapor... All for it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
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    2,891
    How did this thread get drudged up from the dank and dark basement? Just saying that maybe after 4y, if point wanting to be made, maybe a new thread started?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8
    Fantastic. Great idea.

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