We'll be working for our health....

[SolarMike]

Everybody is talking about healthcare in what seems to be a butt-backward way.
What is causing all the illnesses and diseases today? It seems we ought to get to the root of the problems as well.

We have chemical companies poisening the ground our food is grown in. We have chemicals polluting the containers our food is packed in. Ever tasted bottled water, or popsicles in those long plastic tubes? I go through hundreds of those things and every one has the petroleum taste to them.

Why does the government allow a key man to go back and forth, working for MONSANTO then the FDA, then MONSANTO, then the FDA, affecting policies that have to do with the chemicals in our food chain?

That is government AND business working together in a covert manner that is chock full of conflicts of interest.

Everybody knows that one can't find critters indigenous to the soil in an american corn, bean or wheat field. Put a shovel in the ground and you won't get any worms.

We didn't have all of these diseases at the turn of the century. Today we are four times as likely to get cancer. We need to stop poisoning our food.

You are correct.....please enlighten me as to the how we are to rectify the problem.

[SolarMike]

If we eliminate personal experience, we consequentially eliminate ALL data, including empirical, as all experience that concerns us is generally human in nature, expressed in personal experiences.

You are quoting a MASS of personal human experiences, by nature abstract, filtered thru the perceptions of those directly involved, which can be a complex web, including all family health care providers, which are then recorded by statisticians, who are left to interpret medical findings (both accurate or inaccurate) into linear statistical data.

This does not include the rational or irrational, honest or dis-honest motives of each person or variable in the mix. Nor does it reflect the cognizant or non-cognizant variables that exist throughout the entire process , including human or non-direct human effect, nor does it include skill utilization which is partially redundant to the other human variables.

No mention is made of the external variables that come into play, such as political/ philosophical, which obviously are POWERFUL, GUIDING variables that have much to do with the final expression of PERSONAL HUMAN EXPERIENCE, reported finally as your..........empirical evidence

It was a little emotional watching my dad die. But I do try to state the facts and not be guided by emotion.

I have said this before. My wife is a medical researcher. she teaches what is called "outcome measurement" and there is a huge amount of work involved to take anything out of a study that can bias the outcome. If you really want to know what happens to a population (what works and what doesn't) you have to turn it into blind statistics.

[janlikeswarm]

Since we are pretty much one of the only ones in the free civilized world without some form of national health care the US is either:
A - Smarter than the rest of the civilized world - or
B - Dumber than the rest of the civilized world.

Its pretty obvious to me that we have been conned by the politicians, drug companies, insurance companies & anyone else who gets rich off the blood of the American people to think that "A" is the answer. I'm sure we scare the hell out of the rest of the world with all our military power & the irrational behavior they see from us. To make health care a debate between conservatism & liberalism is ridiculous. We should be ashamed of ourselves that people suffer or die because of what it costs to see a doctor or have an operation. If it makes you feel good to call that "freedom of choice" then go right ahead & be sure not to feel any responsibility for all those who die everyday because of this failed system. As long as "I get mine" that's all that counts. That's the "American Way".

Thank-you!
But we are comforted knowing that there are intelligent and rational citizens like AStudent and yourself

[pageyjim]

Many people who profess to be Christians remind me of the parable of two sons. The first son was defiant but did do what was asked. The second was a blowhard saying he would do what was asked but of course did not. Many Christians are the second son, or the chief priests and elders He dealt with earlier in Matthew. They do not do what is asked of them.

[SolarMike]

DUDE, you haven't a clue! Does wealthy and uneducated go together? Or are you suggesting the poor are slaves to the rich?(I'm going somewhere with that line)
Class warfare! You need to have a sit down with SOLARMIKE. He is a liberal and he says we are poor and stupid, unable to read!

I would put Robo against any of you any day. But only for entertainment, as I know you have shown no love for the truth. Still I enjoy his IH. And THAT man is not stupid, unless of coarse his wife is doing all his posting

I'm guessing the A in student doesn't reflect your accomplishments in the classroom. And if it did you would be a hypocrite for not sharing your grades EQUALLY with your fellow students.

You are right. Some of these guys are on the losing team. But that doesn't mean they are wrong. And the losing is just a temporary thing

I don't see you or your secular humanists friends seeking truth. None of you!
You really think china and russia listen to their people?
You won't even listen to your most liberal, elite and wealthy leaders.

your government leader is coming. You will listen to him. Everyone will be promised an equal share. He will have a religious leader. You will love him.

You will love the political leader so much, that you will bear his mark!
Equality for everyone! For three & 1/2 years you are going to be happy!
Then the party will be over.

As for speaking chinese. No worries there. I'll be speaking HEBREW.

And for your healthcare whining, there is coming a day that men will beg God to kill them. But they won't be able to die!

Awesome!Read the owners manual. It does a body good!

Not much bends me. I'm looking for a city whose builder and maker is GOD.

whoa dude, I just saw this. I did not say you/we are poor and stupid but you go and find 1000 people at random with 100 basic questions that we can agree on and I will bet you won't find 30% of the people who can answer them. I'm not talking difficult questions either, just things a normal education should provide.

You have no monopoly on truth and your belief in God will not give it to you but since it makes you feel good, your God is there of you.

[pageyjim]

You are correct.....please enlighten me as to the how we are to rectify the problem.

Looks like regulations are needed and the repeal of Citizens v United plus a bit more. But he can't be saying that, can he?

[AStudent]

Thank-you!
But we are comforted knowing that there are intelligent and rational citizens like AStudent and yourself

Thank you...all that we are asking for is equality for all, if not in the job market at least in healthcare...where peoples lives are on the line.

It's pretty sad that we Americans continue to say national healthcare is a terrible thing, as told to us by the drug companies that make billions off of our broken system....but yet we have countless people from countries with national healthcare that come forward and tell us that they would never go back to a free market system.

A big thank you to everyone from Canada and other countries that has tried to tell us we are wrong.

[SolarMike]

Looks like regulations are needed and the repeal of Citizens v United plus a bit more. But he can't be saying that, can he?

No, he wants to complain but has no tools in the tool box to fix the problem

[SolarMike]

Thank you...all that we are asking for is equality for all, if not in the job market at least in healthcare...where peoples lives are on the line.

It's pretty sad that we Americans continue to say national healthcare is a terrible thing, as told to us by the drug companies that make billions off of our broken system....but yet we have countless people from countries with national healthcare that come forward and tell us that they would never go back to a free market system.

A big thank you to everyone from Canada and other countries that has tried to tell us we are wrong.

What is needed is a big national petition (to start)

[pageyjim]

What is needed is a big national petition (to start)

No I think it's too late, we're doomed.

I think this is our fate.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/U...ates_of_Canada


The God-Fearing Republicans took control of the Presidency and the Senate and Congress, and formed their own form of fascism modeled after Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. In 1982, Hooters girl turned Islamic-Communist prostitute Elvira, Mistress of the Dark & The Democrats helped form Liberal Terrorists to deal with it, and change the system to Socialism and protest the Holy Market and the The War Against Terror, yet Ronald Reagan had called on Ultra Jesus to stop that uprising. It was a war so bloody and violent, that it became known as The Second Civil War. Being limp-wristed pacifists the Liberals lost that war in the red states, and decided to move the blue states out of the nation in late 1985.

[SolarMike]

Soooo, that is what will happen......you are right. we are doomed, unless you live in California or another state where the zealots have not been crowned king.

[John Markl]

Well there is plenty of proof in the bible stating that we should be equals...that we should support government.

[John Markl]

John, Take a few minutes to look back through all the posts on this and all the other healthcare threads and you will see the proof that universal public healthcare is less expensive for EVERYONE. It has already been given to you and I do believe you don't want to believe it so you choose to ignore that evidence. That is becoming absolutely clear. You have been indoctrinated, quite effectively by the looks of it.

I spent enough years in government, both as an employee...and as an elected official to KNOW that there is no way in Hell that government can do ANYTHING that is less expensive than the private sector.

You're only kidding yourself.

Enjoy your Kool-Aid....and don't forget to add sugar....