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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5
    I am ready to purchase new Carrier high-efficiency furnace (96.6%) and air conditioning (15 SEER) units. Another contractor who carries the American Standard equipment, advised me to stay away from the Carrier A/C's because of the new Puron (R410) refrigerant. He pointed my to a website (www.icorinternational.com), that warns of the R410 having issues when the outside temperature exceeds 90 degrees. Is there any truth to this warning? Should I be concerned? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valdosta Ga
    Posts
    847

    Wink

    Whats the problem if you open anything above 5 psi it is dangerous.

    If you contractor will not support r-410 you well have a hard time getting him to do your A/C repairs. Most companys will offer R-22 and r-410 systems

    Do not let these folks try to scare you into haveing to buy a r-410 system because there just won't be anymore R-22 like pressure refrigerants available hogwash

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5
    Actually my case is just the opposite. This contractor does not carry R410 units, and is trying to pursuade me away from Carrier (who does) because they say there is a problem with the new R410 refrigerant (above 90 degrees farenheit - outside temperature).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Central Kansas
    Posts
    1,145
    Your contractor is trying to perpetuate or create an absolute myth. Puron is not 'new'. We have installed R-410a (Puron) refrigerant models for quite a few years with nothing but excellent success rates. To date, the only problems we've encountered equated to installer error and one leaking coil. This is about average per R-22 equipment also. In other words, most problems are installer error and on a rare occasion, it will be equipment failure.

    Your contractor needs to join the rest of us in the 21st century. R-410a is here to stay for a long time and performs beautifully. Yes, it operates at higher pressures than R-22, yes I had to buy another set of gauges to use, yes it costs a little more (today) than R-22, etc. Albeit, many people are reluctant to change and curse that which they know nothing about.

    Have him provide literature, documentation and real proof that it doesn't perform above 90*F- he can't and if he does it is contrived hogwash. If R-410a doesn't perform above 90*F, then I have a lot of customers who are outright lying. When they tell me their new AC/HP system is working well should I ignore them? Call them liars?

    Bottom line- drop this guy, find ANYONE else, feel them out for their knowledge of modern AC systems and installation techniques.
    Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5
    That is what I expected to hear, but appreciate the confirmation. I am going with my original choice of the Carrier equipment (with the Puron), and this other contractor is off my list for good. Thanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,874
    I service a 3 story condo complex.
    The A/C units are on the roof, no shade and black rubber roof.
    During some of my summer service it gets 120* at the surface of the roof, My feet are plenty warm when I'm done.

    But anyway, one of the units is a R-410a unit.
    It's been in for 5 yrs now, no trouble with this unit at all.
    If you try to fail, and succeed.
    Which have you done ?



  7. #7
    400 pounds of head, Are those compressors are gonna last like an R-22 compressor will? That compressor is working twice as hard.I haven't used any R410 yet although I do have the Nate Certification. I'm leary of it..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,586
    Originally posted by helicalrotoman
    That compressor is working twice as hard.I haven't used any R410 yet although I do have the Nate Certification. I'm leary of it..

    If it was working twice as hard, it would draw twice the amperage.

    Don't just look at the head pressure.

    Its the compression ratio between suction and head that determines how hard its working.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    451
    Originally posted by helicalrotoman
    400 pounds of head, Are those compressors are gonna last like an R-22 compressor will? That compressor is working twice as hard.I haven't used any R410 yet although I do have the Nate Certification. I'm leary of it..
    with a comment like this, your cheapening the value of NATE certification
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes...that way you are a mile from them and have their shoes

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valdosta Ga
    Posts
    847
    helicalrotoman
    It is all relative with the gas pressure you have a high high and a high low.

    One thing you do notice is the coils get cold as soon as the compressor lights up. You don't see that at all in r-22 it takes anywhere from a 4 min to 10 min for the coil to get cold

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    146
    R410a isn't ineffective above 90 degrees. But R410a loses both capacity and efficiency faster than R22 as the temperature rises. According to this study, R410a is better at lower temperatures and R22 is better at higher temperatures. The breakeven point is around 90°F-95°F.

    http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build02/PDF/b02186.pdf

    If you're in an area that is particular hot, R22 may be the better choice.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,964
    I would not pay much attention to ICOR since they are just trying to justify selling their refrigant blends which really drop the capacity of systems.

    96.6% efficient heh? You must have a small house that requires only 45,000 Btu input of heat.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    459

    good point

    Originally posted by beenthere
    Originally posted by helicalrotoman
    That compressor is working twice as hard.I haven't used any R410 yet although I do have the Nate Certification. I'm leary of it..

    If it was working twice as hard, it would draw twice the amperage.

    Don't just look at the head pressure.

    Its the compression ratio between suction and head that determines how hard its working.
    beenthere, good to see people in the know posting, helping eliminate these myths about 410! i can see it's gonna be awhile before the majority are comfortable with 410.

    good post!

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