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  1. #1

    Looking for Advice on new system

    hello everyone

    We are planning to get new ACs and boiler, and have had a few contractors in for estimates. We are going with a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110, with smart 40 indirect hw tank.

    We have 3 heated zones, and 2 air conditioned...the two air conditioned zones are each about 1000 sq. ft. each. We live in Mass. in a log home built in 1987 that is completely surrounded by tall trees, and literally gets almost no sunlight inside.

    My question is regarding our selected boiler, and the air handlers. Is it worth the extra cost to go with the hyperion handlers, or v/s handlers, or just stick with the standard air handler? Each contractor recommends their product. I have been told that v/s handlers are more efficient, is that all? Price aside we are looking to find the best system for us that is most efficient, mainly for heating, as well as most reliable.

    Thanks for any help!

    The AC systems that were recommended were:

    -2 Trane Contractor Grade 2ton SEER 13 condensors - 2 ADP hydro air units.

    and

    -2 Trane XB14 2ton condensors - 2 matching Hyperion Air Handlers

    and

    -2 Trane XB 13 SEER 2 ton condensors - with 2 hydro FirstCo. handlers

    and

    -ZONE 1: Carrier 24BB330A003 13 SEER condensor with Carrier FB4CNF03600 air handler with 21" H2O hot water coil AXA090C

    -ZONE 2: Carrier 24BB324A003 2ton condensor with FB4CNF02400 handler and 17" H2O hotwater coil AXA072C

    and

    -ZONE 1: Carrier 24ABC630A003 2.5ton 16SEER condensor with Carrier FV4CNF003000 21" wide fan coil with ECM motor and 21" H2O hot water coil AXA090C.

    -ZONE 2: Carrier 24ABC624A003 2ton 16SEER condensor with Carrier FV4CNF002000 18" wide fan coil with ECM motor and 17" H2O hotwater coil AXA072C

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,656
    If you are using natural gas the systems look fine. If propane go dual fuel. Variable speed will reduce operational cost both summer and winter. You should go high seer as you can afford.
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,841
    Quote Originally Posted by drose1234 View Post
    hello everyone

    We are planning to get new ACs and boiler, and have had a few contractors in for estimates. We are going with a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110, with smart 40 indirect hw tank.

    We have 3 heated zones, and 2 air conditioned...the two air conditioned zones are each about 1000 sq. ft. each. We live in Mass. in a log home built in 1987 that is completely surrounded by tall trees, and literally gets almost no sunlight inside.

    Trees are not included in Manual 'J' calculations because they move. That is, they get cut down, fall down or otherwise change over years and years. So the shade they produce does not reduce your cooling load. Clearly you're embarking on changing to a hydro-air system from whta is now a 3-zone water system but you don't state the zoning arrangement as it exists. Youi also haven't stated the type of gas to be used, natural or propane.

    My question is regarding our selected boiler, and the air handlers. Is it worth the extra cost to go with the hyperion handlers, or v/s handlers, or just stick with the standard air handler? Each contractor recommends their product. I have been told that v/s handlers are more efficient, is that all? Price aside we are looking to find the best system for us that is most efficient, mainly for heating, as well as most reliable.

    You need to know there is a difference between a variable speed motor, a non-variable, ECM motor and a PSC motor. The difference between a PSC motor and an ECM motor is that the PSC motor is a cheap, AC motor. An ECM motor (including variable speed) is a permanent magnet, DC motor that, when installed in a relatively low static environment, is significantly more energy efficient that the PSC motor. It also costs about double what a PSC motor costs initially. A variable speed motor is an ECM motor with a variable speed drive attached. The variable drive, through pulse width modulation, allows the RPMs of the motor to be finitely controlled to produce various improvements in comfort level, dehumidification and lower noise. Among the Carrier/Bryant air handlers you'll find they all have ECM motors and all of the Preferred and above models have V/S ECM motors.

    Thanks for any help!

    The AC systems that were recommended were:

    -2 Trane Contractor Grade 2ton SEER 13 condensors - 2 ADP hydro air units.

    and

    -2 Trane XB14 2ton condensors - 2 matching Hyperion Air Handlers

    and

    -2 Trane XB 13 SEER 2 ton condensors - with 2 hydro FirstCo. handlers

    and

    -ZONE 1: Carrier 24BB330A003 13 SEER condensor with Carrier FB4CNF03600 air handler with 21" H2O hot water coil AXA090C

    -ZONE 2: Carrier 24BB324A003 2ton condensor with FB4CNF02400 handler and 17" H2O hotwater coil AXA072C

    and

    -ZONE 1: Carrier 24ABC630A003 2.5ton 16SEER condensor with Carrier FV4CNF003000 21" wide fan coil with ECM motor and 21" H2O hot water coil AXA090C.

    -ZONE 2: Carrier 24ABC624A003 2ton 16SEER condensor with Carrier FV4CNF002000 18" wide fan coil with ECM motor and 17" H2O hotwater coil AXA072C
    Anytime you mix/match equipment, you're going to lose some level of support if it's needed. That is, neither Trane nor Carrier tech service will help with support of the ADP or First Co. air handlers and the reciprocal is true as well. ADP or FC won't help with the Trane or Carrier equipment. So in light of consistency, the only viable systems having continuity of manufacturer are the two Carrier zones. FWIW, I'd go with them. You can opt for fan coils other than the VS if you want to lower the equipment costs but I'd stick with the Carrier system with hydro coils added (they slip right into the air handler where electric heaters would otherwise be installed) rather than the mix/match of ADP/FC.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  4. #4
    Thanks for the info, I wasnt sure about trees, just trying to give as much info as I could.

    We use natural gas. the three zones are currently: (2) 1987 Trane handlers with water coils, and (1) forced hot water baseboard. I didn't know the differences in motors, but appreciate the info. I was only listing the information that what was on the quotes I was given.

    I guess I'm just looking for un-biased information on the products themselves, if one is better or more reliable then the other.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,841
    The most reliable product is the one that's installed properly, per manufacture's installation instructions. You'll be more likely to have that happen if the installing contractor has shown evidence of NOT cutting corners in the quoting process. That would mean that he/she required a load analysis done by him/herself as well as all the other ACCA Manuals recommendations.

    The least reliable product is the one installed by a "bottom feeder" installation company that knows only the cheapest price. They're the ones who have learned where to cut all the corners that are possible. The results can be staggeringly expensive in the long term.

    The actual brand has little to do with the outcome. It's the installing company that makes or breaks the project.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,615
    Agree with Skip.....

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