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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto,Ontario Canada
    Posts
    355

    New Technology Coming soon

    hello all

    I just came back from the cmx trade show in Toronto and i was talking to one of the salesman at a booth about refrigerants and how its all going to change in the next 5-10 years.

    He was mentioning about how in europe. they all have commercial units working off this new refrigerant believe it or not its CO2 and he was saying the pressures that are expected are 2000psig high side and 500 psig on the low side. and they have been using it for years and its a good alternative to our current refrigerants! how does everyone feel about handling pressures as high as 2000psig as a normal commerical unit? it personally kinda scares me but he says it is the new world of refrigeration and we all have to accept it.

    heres a link to one of the units kinda cool
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/45...tion_Unit.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,266
    Hydraulic systems have been in use for years and can be as high as 3000 PSI.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,401
    Hydraulics I have worked on go to 5,000 psi.

    To make the unit able to handle such pressures, you would have a radically different kind of containment. My guess is the cost will be impossible below 50 tons.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,579
    CO2 is nothing new in the refrigeration world.

    Nor is it anything new overseas.

    CO2 is used as a refrigerant in most of the rest of the world. It is very effective.

    Coke and Pepsi are using CO2 in their vending machines and plan to be 100% CO2 in them by 2015 if my memory serves me correctly.

    Get used to it, guys. 410a was only the beginning.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    CO2 is nothing new in the refrigeration world.

    Nor is it anything new overseas.

    CO2 is used as a refrigerant in most of the rest of the world. It is very effective.

    Coke and Pepsi are using CO2 in their vending machines and plan to be 100% CO2 in them by 2015 if my memory serves me correctly.

    Get used to it, guys. 410a was only the beginning.
    I for one will be happy to see it go.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,401
    I would be interested to see how a CO2 system would be made manifest in a light commercial or residential environment. Specifically, the price point.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    I believe Mercedes Benz is using Co2 in mobile A/C systems...I think, but can't remember.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Salt Lake City/Tooele
    Posts
    2,467
    I also maintain and repair CNG and LNG fuel station equipment. Love working on high pressure systems. Newest technology is tungsten carbide bushings with silicon carbide pistons...a set with a piston diameter of 3/8" inch and 5" long can take 150psi in one end and give you 4000 psi at the other...no lubricants, seals, and heat generation is mild but easily dissipated.

    Waiting for them to incorporate this technology into CO2 refrigeration compression technology , go from large hermetics and scrolls to a the same compressor a tenth the size and 200% more efficient. Or downsize a hydraulic ram rack to a quarter of the size...we are always the last industry to see incorporation of already proven efficient technology out there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    4,262
    C02 is where the supermarket industry is going.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,266
    I was using my customers co2 tonight to clean his ice machine coil. He was shocked to see how his rubber line became frozen.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    C02 is where the supermarket industry is going.
    everything must be new yes? or can they retrofit? pardon my ignorance on CO2

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Creek. Oregon
    Posts
    182
    I am glad I am retired! you young guys can have it.
    a stupid question is a question you wont to ask, but don't

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,579
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac wiz 79 View Post
    everything must be new yes? or can they retrofit? pardon my ignorance on CO2
    Depends on the type of system.

    I would say all new as low temp systems run near 200# suction.

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