Fed up with Manual J! - Page 4
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  1. #40
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    Problem there Tips is...

    The public is the marketplace. If they WANT high quality/high efficiency installs... they will pay for them. Judging from the folks I talk to (and counter talk at the supply houses: It appears a significant segment of the market cares only about price.

    I DO agree that we need stricter licensing, as well as more CE classes.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Who is they? would that be the same folks that created the:

    'Free Enterprise System'
    An economic system where few restrictions are placed on business activities and ownership. In this system, governments generally have minimal ownership of enterprises in the market place. This system aims for limited restrictions on trade and minimal government intervention.
    My "no blame" philosophy goes hand in hand with my "no excuses" philosophy Mr. Bill. Everyone understands where you are comming from with your position on why you have been doing things the way you've been doing- you had to make a go of it as a business and you did as good as you could by your customers. You've stated yourself that someone trying to live up to all of the "correct" ways wouldn't last long in your neck of the woods. I believe that to be true, up to a point. I admit to pointing a finger at contractors such as yourself as being part of the overall problem, but I'm not saying you are in any way dishonest or uneducated in any way at all. I'm just saying you, and all of the contractors you have to compete against, are all caught up in a self-perpetuating cycle of having to compete against each other that guarantees that not only do homeowners get hvac systems that are oversized, connected to crappy duct systems, in a home that leaks air like a seive & under-insulated, but they mostly never even get told of what the correct ways are so they at least have the opportunity of making the choice. The only problem I have with your recent posts is that you seem to be making excuses & almost advocating leaving things the way they have been. My memories of your recent posts are that of mocking & belittling those who are attempting to set things right. I didn't name any names in my last post, but it shure enough flushed you out of the brush.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    It appears a significant segment of the market cares only about price.
    John, it appears? I think the writing is on the wall every time I pass a Wal-Mart.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    John, it appears? I think the writing is on the wall every time I pass a Wal-Mart.
    Thankfully there is not a storefront 'wallyworld' of HVAC one can just walk into, pick a few big boxes onto their cart, and pay a fixed price for an install at the counter. Well, not yet anyway.

    I have worked hard to develop a market of folks who care... it has paid off. It was not easy... but the referrals are coming in now from folks that appreciate what I can do, rather than how little it will cost.

    Part of it is to simply NOT work for the folks who are only price conscious (or get all their tech data from an engineer and take bids). One has to decide what they are worth... and not sell themselves short.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    The only problem I have with your recent posts is that you seem to be making excuses & almost advocating leaving things the way they have been. My memories of your recent posts are that of mocking & belittling those who are attempting to set things right. I didn't name any names in my last post, but it shure enough flushed you out of the brush.
    Would that be those same posts were I have said I do condone LC's, and those posts were I said I personally think there should be a separation of the energy audit business and LC's? Yes I can see were you feel I condemn LC's by those posts. Wow isn't it funny how some folks are so determined to prove a point, they can really read a lot more into someones posts.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Thankfully there is not a storefront 'wallyworld' of HVAC one can just walk into, pick a few big boxes onto their cart, and pay a fixed price for an install at the counter. Well, not yet anyway.
    Well my point was, if this whole country was not focused on "price" Wally World would be out of business, do you see Wally going out of business soon?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  7. #46
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    You know there is a open market for a business willing to perform Load calculations and Energy Audits, this could be the next Microsoft of the business world. I can't figure out for the life of me, if there is so much of a demand for this, where are all the new businesses? Man, money just laying on the table, while folks argue over who should do it.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Well my point was, if this whole country was not focused on "price" Wally World would be out of business, do you see Wally going out of business soon?
    No, I think WallyWorld will be around for a while... Over here the $ stores are eating WalMart's lunch and dinner both. Price will always be a driver.

    I told the guy at Costco he could either get rid of the Lennox display or I would go to Sams... he just ignored me and walked away. Guess I will be leaving Costco.

    IMO it is not so much the 'cheap' as it is too much capacity and not enough market. Price competition gets fierce when there are too many sellers and not enough buyers.

    OTOH: It is good for all of us to have stuff cheap... makes for a fatter retirement account... if we ever get to retire...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    You know there is a open market for a business willing to perform Load calculations and Energy Audits, this could be the next Microsoft of the business world. I can't figure out for the life of me, if there is so much of a demand for this, where are all the new businesses? Man, money just laying on the table, while folks argue over who should do it.
    I wonder if the 'who should do it' is more 'how can the govt get their slice of the $$$ and power pies'...

    I plan to take one or the other of the home energy audit classes (BPI or RESNET) and get the cert this fall. NO, I am not planning to do energy audits... rather have a working knowledge of the trade so I can use it in sales.

    Was talking to a guy Tuesday... he was asking all kinds of questions. I had EVERY answer he wanted or needed... and I could tell he was a little surprised... I think he was trying to stump me (engineer type). I got the sale based on knowing my trade and being able to talk it clearly.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #49
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    I'm not saying you are against LC Mr. Bill, and this is not just about load calcs, it's about EVERYTHING regarding a homes ability to provide comfort and use energy wisely. My favorite analogy is a doctor hooking up an IV to a patient to provide blood to the patient, but doesn't bother to notice the huge gash in the patients neck.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    it's about EVERYTHING regarding a homes ability to provide comfort and use energy wisely.
    Maybe we can do a little bonding here, for the record I am also "for" anything we can do to provide comfort, and use our energy wisely. What I am not for, and I bet thousands of small a/c business owners would agree, is for things to be forced on us. Most of us don't have the resources to do everything to perform all the aspects of the home energy business and a/c installation and service business. Here is a perfect example, I go into a restaurant and ask for crab legs, and they say we don't have them, do I say this is a restaurant isn't it? See not every business carries or performs everything related to their business, it's a resource issue. If every small business was required to carry or perform everything related to their business, there would only be big business, then we would all pay out the rear for everything, follow me? this is why there is separation, and also separation develops more jobs.


    Had to edit here: and they say we don't have them.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  12. #51
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    Float'N Vally, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Very common in commercial. An engineer does the load calc, duct design, and register specifications.
    This is true AND the engineer puts his stamp on the job.

    If you install the job, per HIS specs, he owns it.
    I have been involved with bad spec's that NO equipment can meet.
    That is provable also.

    I have never seen this is residential.
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Maybe we can do a little bonding here, for the record I am also "for" anything we can do to provide comfort, and use our energy wisely. What I am not for, and I bet thousands of small a/c business owners would agree, is for things to be forced on us. Most of us don't have the resources to do everything to perform all the aspects of the home energy business and a/c installation and service business. Here is a perfect example, I go into a restaurant and ask for crab legs, and they say we don't have them, do I say this is a restaurant isn't it? See not every business carries or performs everything related to their business, it's a resource issue. If every small business was required to carry or perform everything related to their business, there would only be big business, then we would all pay out the rear for everything, follow me? this is why there is separation, and also separation develops more jobs.


    Had to edit here: and they say we don't have them.
    Agree to a point: There are things I do not do... and things I do. I think each of us has to test our marketplace (which is not the same as the guy down the street's marketplace), to see what works for me.

    I think it was this thread, but could be another: I plan to take a home energy audit class and get the cert this fall. NOT to do energy audits... rather to know and understand the issues. Helps my sales process.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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