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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,749

    Pool People.........

    What are they good for?

    I think that was a song in the 60's. Anyway ran across this today on one of my indoor pool heat pump people. Pump was just repaced by the pool guy. Never knew this kind of fitting existed.

    I'm made my share of money repiping the pool people's piping, especially on the pumps.

    It's proper and necessary to run a length of discharge pipe at least 3 times the size of the discharge opening before a bend is made. This allows the water to someone stabalized before causing it to go through a turn.

    I've repiped so many systems that were piped this way and have reduced the amp draw of the pumps motors as well as made the heat exchange in the heat exchanger much more productive.
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    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,510
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    What are they good for?


    I'm made my share of money repiping the pool people's piping, especially on the pumps.
    Say that 10 times fast
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,356
    PVC is dangerous in untrained hands. It makes anyone feel like they can be a plumber
    Last week I re-piped this lobster tank in a supermarket

    I suspect there were more linear feet of fittings than pipe.
    Unfortunately I don't have any after pictures.
    sorry the pics are sideways


    Name:  lobster1.jpg
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    These pipes were connected to the wrong ports on the filter, they needed to be switched.


    Name:  lobster2.jpg
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    Two of these fitting had NO GLUE and somehow stayed together for 15 years until I touched them and then immediately fell appart
    Last edited by craig1; 03-22-2012 at 12:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Elyria Township , Ohio
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by craig1 View Post
    PVC is dangerous in untrained hands. It makes anyone feel like they can be a plumber
    Last week I re-piped this lobster tank in a supermarket

    I suspect there were more linear feet of fittings than pipe.
    Unfortunately I don't have any after pictures.
    sorry the pics are sideways


    Name:  lobster1.jpg
Views: 565
Size:  37.2 KB
    These pipes were connected to the wrong ports on the filter, they needed to be switched.


    Name:  lobster2.jpg
Views: 512
Size:  34.0 KB
    Two of these fitting had NO GLUE and somehow stayed together for 15 years until I touched them and then immediately fell appart
    Looking at all the elbows and weird angles in the piping in the second pic made me dizzy .....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,749
    Craig
    Someone has stock in PVC fittings from the look of your set up.

    Take a look at my first pump picture and you will not see any glue or cleaner on the first two joints. I can't see how the joints are kept together. I decided not to mess with it as I'm not the one who installed the piping by the pool pump people presently presented PVC piping pictures.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Brewster, MA
    Posts
    307

    PVC:

    I always use clear cleaner and clear cement. You can always tell if the pipe and fittings are cleaned. The writing doesn't go into the socket.

    Those are mostly drainage DWV fittings, but Sch 40 pressure rated fittings are what should be used.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    3,790
    holy .... wtf?!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Afton, VA / Khorat, Thailand
    Posts
    2,468
    PVC. What is it good for.....absolutly nothing....hey say it again......
    Tough times don't last...Tough people do.

    Midnight Sun Astrophotography

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cicero, IN.
    Posts
    47
    If the inspector dosen't see purple in North Carolina....FAIL

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    SE of Seattle
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    I've repiped so many systems that were piped this way and have reduced the amp draw of the pumps motors as well as made the heat exchange in the heat exchanger much more productive.
    Good for you. I'm a mechanical engineer and I have seen some amazingly bad piping over the years. Now I know where I can post that stuff.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Brewster, MA
    Posts
    307

    Stupid Rules for Inspectors:

    Another stupid rule for lazy inspectors. All that purple stains on white pipes and fittings make it look like hackaroos were turned loose on the piping, no matter how straight it looks.

    Makes me again realize how grateful I am to be licensed and work in Massachusetts where we don't have a lot of these CS regulatiions. We have a "Uniform Code" that means that the same code regs are the same in Pittsfield as they are on Nantucket. Inspectors are required to get 12 hours of continuing ed per year and we common folks have to take 6 hours per year of we can't renew our licenses.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,142

    Cool

    Some clarification is due here:

    The IRC does not specifically approve of PVC or any kind of plastic venting. The code recognizes listed venting, which means listed to UL 1738, such as AL29-4c stainless steel or per mfrs. instructions. Now, most mfrs simply say you can use Sch 40 pvc. They don't get into specifics of joining, support, etc. So, where do these regs. for purple primer come from? Local ordinances. The inspectors want to CYA. This became more of an issue in the wake of the Lofgren carbon monoxide case in Aspen, CO where PVC was not properly joined.

    FYI, Charlotte pipe DOES require primer on Sch 40 PVC. Download the installation instruction and see page 89. The primer softens the plastic for a better, more uniform bond.

    As for the 'ugly' stains, that's a reflection of workmanship. I've posted on this before but here's the trick: wrap the pipe with blue painter's tape revealing a 1/8"-1/4" uniform band. Prime to the tape, apply cement, join and pull the tape. You get a pretty purple ring everytime and only takes an extra few seconds.

    If something goes wrong and you are called in, you'd better be following the mfrs instructions on joining.

    Back to the 'approval' issue for venting: None of the major mfrs. have 'approved' their pipe for combustion venting. There is no ASTM std. to test their pipe to for venting. This is a major reason we have not been able to agree on a new listing std. on the UL Standards Technical Panel the way the Canadians have with their S636 listing. We see too many problems with their listing.

    With a max. operating temp. of 140F, you'be do well to perform combustion analysis to ensure it is not too hot for the venting. BTW, I called Fernco and they say the same as Charlotte pipe: 140F max continuous and not approved for venting even though their couplings are used in this application and even sold to Bradford White for their TTW water heaters.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Brewster, MA
    Posts
    307

    Fixing Stupid:

    You can't fix it (stupid) and you can't make installers do it properly. I've seen PVC venting on direct vent water heaters that were a lovely shade of brown. Meaning that the chorides have been leaching out of the pipe and fittings. The whitest part of the pipe and fittings were where the PVC cement was on the pipe.

    That's a lot of work to tape the pipe so you can keep the purple stain off the pipe. Then, to remove it. Time = Money. If you clean pipe with clear cleaner and wipe it off with a clean rag, you will be able to tell if the job was cleaned by the fact that there will be missing colored manufacturers mark on a large amount of fittings that are visable where the line is facing the observer. Then, close nipples shouldn't have any line. Most of the pool piping I see where I work isn't cleaned, cut off straight or de-burred. And cut off with a 6 Pt sawzall blade. How do you accurately measure pipe that is cut off crooked?

    We're talking work that would be proudly shown on "The Wall Of Fame". Not something that someone saw that would be a good candidate for the "Wall Of Shame. I like to think my work could be found on the Wall Of Fame".

    The case you mention in Colorado. I'll bet that threre was no mention of deburring the pipe so the pipe doesn't wipe the cement out of the socket like a windshield wiper does on a car in the rain. When PVC was first introduced in Massachusetts in the 60's, the instructions required square cuts and deburring. I've pulled apart leakers that were none of the above and not cleaned. Then, crooked cuts that popped back out so there was only 1/4" inserted on the short side.

    I guess it comes under the topic of good installers have to suffer from the shoddy practices of a few.

    Like George The Firedragon says, "You can't fix stupid".

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