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  1. #27
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    Cool

    Does anyone else see the absurdity over this? I mean, a couple of magazine guys tinker in their shop and produce what Chevy couldn't do with BILLIONS of dollars from the taxpayers.

    It's the same old crap: some local inventor comes up with a cheap design to convert garbage into fuel and he and his invention are never heard from again. The Japanese made scooters in WWII that ran on coal. The Germans almost conquered the world running their tanks on alcohol but we can't make a car that will do it and it costs more to make alcohol from corn than it does to make gasoline from Arabian dinosaurs.

    Since these guys are not "Part of the Program", I am sure they quickly will be absorbed by the Administration and never heard from again. They'll get the EPA, OSHA, DOT, DOE, ---some agency to be the bad guy and close them down. Afterall, our government cannot allow for success.

  2. #28
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    doesn't need one, all he had to do was disconnect the batteries and Tesla doesn't install a disconnect switch.(which is just STUPID!) Parasitic current will run the batteries down over time. So I think the guy has a legitimate warranty claim.

    Lithium Ion batteries don't like Battery Tenders® These batteries are a completely different animal from a Lead acid battery. Lithium Ion batteries DO NOT lose there charge over time if left off. If you charge them to 3.3v per cell, set them on a shelf and come back in a year they will still be at 3.3v

    you need a charge controller that will TURN OFF when it reaches 3.3volts per cell. And you need a disconnect switch in a EV.

    The "other problem" with Tesla cars is, once the battery is dead, you can't move the car, period. The wheels are locked up. You will have to drag it onto a flat bed.
    I agree that LI-on batteries are different animals... owners need to understand how to take care of them. I suspect there are trickle (maintenance) chargers out there designed specifically for them.

    The reason a Tesla battery cannot be disconnected is the climate control system for the battery. The Chevy VOLT battery fire does not happen on a Tesla because of the cooling and heating system... powered by the battery. If one read their owner's manual, they would know that.
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  3. #29
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    No.
    +1. IF it was, it would be more common. It's also not the best in terms of storage density, unless you use composits for the housing. You see, the flywheel works great, but you need a helluva enclosure in case the flywheel comes apart so you and anyone within 500' it's killed by shrapnel.

  4. #30
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    The Germans almost conquered the world running their tanks on alcohol but we can't make a car that will do it and it costs more to make alcohol from corn than it does to make gasoline from Arabian dinosaurs.
    .
    I'm confused by your post. Are you for or against conspiracy theorist?

    We can and do have cars that run on ethanol. It's not cost effective because corn isn't cheap as a raw material, and it takes a LOT of energy to convert a carbohydrate like corn into an alcohol. Ultimately Ethanol is more of a battery than a fuel source since it takes almost 80% of the enrgy it produces to produce and refine it. I think gasoline is <20%.
    Besides, corn for fuel is a foolish energy policy. FOr every $1 you might save in fuel costs even with subsidies, is probably costing you $1.10 in increased food prices. Further, E10 in my area sells for only 3% less than regualr unleaded, but you mielage probably drops by 3-5% and the fuel attracts water into the fuel system and ultimately doesn't store well long term.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Just curiosity on my part: About a year ago, I test drove a Chevy Volt. I am sure the EV crowd looks down their nose at the Volt... however IMO the technology makes sense.

    Does anyone in the EV crowd know if there is a larger battery in the works for the Volt? IMO the short elec range before gas assist is one of the less attractive features. Seems if there are lots of 75-100 mile between charges EV cars... why does the Volt need gas back-up somewhere between 30 and 35 miles?

    Just curious... and NO, I am not planning to buy a Volt. Just thought the idea and the technology are interesting.
    It's a weight, space and cost issue. To keep it a compact car, you have certain size retrictions. So the sapce required for the IC engine eats into space for the battery.

    Long story short, as the range increases, the weight goes up, drivetrain gets larger, IC engine gets larger and so on. Performance suffers form the increased weight. SO basically there's a sweet spot for weight, size and cost for an extended range. Its' deminishing returns.

    It's the same reason most cars don;t have a 40 or 50 gallong fuel tank so you cna go 1000 miles between stops.

    It's also why on bicycles for example, after 100 years of developemnt and testing, they've settled on a 700C wheel size and between 22-25cm wide tires as optimum.

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    It's a weight, space and cost issue. To keep it a compact car, you have certain size retrictions. So the sapce required for the IC engine eats into space for the battery.

    Long story short, as the range increases, the weight goes up, drivetrain gets larger, IC engine gets larger and so on. Performance suffers form the increased weight. SO basically there's a sweet spot for weight, size and cost for an extended range. Its' deminishing returns.

    It's the same reason most cars don;t have a 40 or 50 gallong fuel tank so you cna go 1000 miles between stops.

    It's also why on bicycles for example, after 100 years of developemnt and testing, they've settled on a 700C wheel size and between 22-25cm wide tires as optimum.
    MeThinks the major thing we need in EV cars is better batteries. If the Volt went 95-100 miles before gas (or even as low as 50-60-75)... it may become more attractive.

    Then there is the price. IMO the car needs to cost no more than $30K, including some fancy gadgets. Gonna be a while before the Volt is that cheap.

    I think a range of 75 miles (min) before gas assist, along with a price below $30K; the Volt may fly. However at 30 miles before gas assist, and $40K cost... well there is no value there... Not much different than someone in a colder northern climate buying 20+ SEER AC, or in a hot southern climate getting a 95% furnace... just not good value.
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  7. #33
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    Feb 2009
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    Batteries has been always the key, we will never go full scale to electric unless we run out of other affordable fuels or the batteries get better.

    Strange that Tesla does not have a battery management system. I thought it was pretty much a given on any Li battery. Designed and built a dirt simple management system for a battery we used in a cross country solar car race. Know the limits well, much more elegant chips out there to do the job and they are not that expensive.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Batteries has been always the key, we will never go full scale to electric unless we run out of other affordable fuels or the batteries get better.

    Strange that Tesla does not have a battery management system. I thought it was pretty much a given on any Li battery. Designed and built a dirt simple management system for a battery we used in a cross country solar car race. Know the limits well, much more elegant chips out there to do the job and they are not that expensive.
    Are you sure a Tesla does not have a battery mgt system? I have read many places the Tesla heats and cools its batteries with the vehicle parked and turned 'off'. Or is that what you mean by battery mgt?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #35
    http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/23...le-life-of-li/


    The claims to date are a 200 mile range battery at cost of 3K each,instead of 10K each used in the Volt.

    The batteries will also be half the weight.
    FEN

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/23...le-life-of-li/


    The claims to date are a 200 mile range battery at cost of 3K each,instead of 10K each used in the Volt.

    The batteries will also be half the weight.
    If this works... it will move the EV's and Hybrids along the road.

    As well as helping laptops and phones.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #37
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Are you sure a Tesla does not have a battery mgt system? I have read many places the Tesla heats and cools its batteries with the vehicle parked and turned 'off'. Or is that what you mean by battery mgt?
    Actually I can not see how they could get away without one, A previous post here alluded to the fact, did not check it out. Just replying to the report.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

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