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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    524

    Stay bright 8 or hard stick?

    Time to beat this dead horse again maybe. I keep reading so many posts from guys using nitrogen and brazing and have been long before I installed my first 401a. I was reassured by many people and sources that with correct techniques Stay Brite 8 was more than adequate. We all know brazing with a stick can cover up a multitude of sins.

    I think I'll stick with Stay Brite but just curious of others views. Why especially are you uncomfortable using Stay Brite 8?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    NW burbs of Detroit
    Posts
    6,058
    because it is not endorsed by any mfg i know of. that might just be a COYA...cause what i have seen of stay-brite, it works well. don't know about the hi-side cause even back in the day when all i did was refer there were guys using it for soldering the discharge line to the comp, even tho the specs said not to.

    time will tell.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    It doesn't matter that Stay Brite 8 is "more than adequate", pretty much every manufacturers installation instructions specify brazing the refrigerant line connections, thus making it required per the mechanical codes.

    Having said that, I keep some on my truck and occasionally use it on heat sensitive repairs.

    The main practical issue I have with it vs brazing is that it has very limited gap filling ability, so you need a tighter joint than is often possible with the play dough copper stubs on a lot of equipment and service parts these days.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    246
    I have only used it on rotolok valves.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,090
    What is this stuff?
    This is confusing me?? Is it a type of solder rod? You can use it instead of running Nitro when you weld?

    Can someone please post a link to what it is your Talking about?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by #1CDNTECH View Post
    What is this stuff?
    This is confusing me?? Is it a type of solder rod? You can use it instead of running Nitro when you weld?

    Can someone please post a link to what it is your Talking about?
    I can't think of any link. You use it the same way you use any roll solder and flux.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NW AR
    Posts
    2,478
    I use 15% sil fos on everything, even steel to copper. Its all I need with the work that I do.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,159
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    It doesn't matter that Stay Brite 8 is "more than adequate", pretty much every manufacturers installation instructions specify brazing the refrigerant line connections, thus making it required per the mechanical codes.

    Having said that, I keep some on my truck and occasionally use it on heat sensitive repairs.

    The main practical issue I have with it vs brazing is that it has very limited gap filling ability, so you need a tighter joint than is often possible with the play dough copper stubs on a lot of equipment and service parts these days.
    Highlited above is more or less what I do also. If I am attaching a TXV... I probably will pull out the StayBrite. If I am attaching an AC or a coil (and there is adequate tubing between the TXV and end), probably will use dynaflow (my preferred brazing stick).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...y-Brite-8.aspx

    Here are the tech specs.

    It is more than adequate for use with R410A.

    Installation instructions recommend brazing.

    The last time I looked in the code book, it was not approved. Why, I couldn't tell you. Look at the tech specs. It is plenty good enough from a technical standpoint.

    Using Sta-Brite #8 requires clean, good fitting joints.....which is what we should be doing anyway.

    I've seen more than my share of crap sil-fos work.....like people sticking a 3/4 suction line into a 7/8 fitting on a condensing unit.....then pinching it shut and "buttering it up".....You can get away with murder with sil-fos as far as the quality of your joints goes....
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,675
    I thought the real reason was the use of flux when using staybrite and the potential harm it could do to a 410A system

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by ar_hvac_man View Post
    I use 15% sil fos on everything, even steel to copper. Its all I need with the work that I do.
    Brazing alloys containing phosphorous should not be used with ferrous metals.
    You end up with a brittle joint that is prone to cracking, hence the reason every manufacturer of brazing materials recommends against using it on ferrous metals.
    http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/~...ler_Metal.ashx
    "Stay Silv 15 is not recommended for brazing steel or other ferrous metals."

    http://www.silfos.com/htmdocs/produc...w_to_info.html
    "However, when brazing copper to steel (in compressor or valve assemblies) you can't use phosphorus bearing filler metals as they form brittle phosphides and the joint could fail. Instead use a phosphorus-free filler metal"
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,090
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...y-Brite-8.aspx

    Here are the tech specs.

    It is more than adequate for use with R410A.

    Installation instructions recommend brazing.

    The last time I looked in the code book, it was not approved. Why, I couldn't tell you. Look at the tech specs. It is plenty good enough from a technical standpoint.

    Using Sta-Brite #8 requires clean, good fitting joints.....which is what we should be doing anyway.

    I've seen more than my share of crap sil-fos work.....like people sticking a 3/4 suction line into a 7/8 fitting on a condensing unit.....then pinching it shut and "buttering it up".....You can get away with murder with sil-fos as far as the quality of your joints goes....
    I've seen it but not used it. Are you saying you use it even when it is against code?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpit View Post
    I've seen it but not used it. Are you saying you use it even when it is against code?
    Did I say that?
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

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