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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
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    Guayaquil EC
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    10,265
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyac1 View Post
    i went on a service call. compressor shorted out. found contactor welded closed. compressor was under warranty. need to replace comp. but my question was i noticed this bad comp said poe oil and its was running r-22. Is that ok. i thought r-22 had mineral oil in it and you dont want to mix oils or it can form acid? any input. or links i can learn more about refrigerants and oil mixtures
    The mixing POE and MO oils does not create acids, nor does it cause systems to "gum up" as was stated in another reply. Actually, in the not too distant future we will likely see all replacement compressors shipped with POE...regardless of the application.

    Here's a link to a very interesting past thread which discussed some related issues:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=145100

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    EVERYWHERE
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    226
    [QUOTE=icemeister;12713021]The mixing POE and MO oils does not create acids, nor does it cause systems to "gum up" as was stated in another reply. Actually, in the not too distant future we will likely see all replacement compressors shipped with POE...regardless of the application.

    Here's a link to a very interesting past thread which discussed some related issues:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=145100[/QUOTe

    poe and mineral oil will gum up when mixed I have seen it first hand
    So before you say someone is wrong know what you are talking about.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Pearl Miss
    Posts
    14
    Some carrier and trane schools I have been to teach mixing poe with mo will cause system problems.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,064
    The OP is asking about mixing POE and MIN in an R-22 system

    POE & MIN are both soluble in R-22...hell even throw in some AB.

    As long as the oil is soluble in the refrigerant...it doesn't matter how you mix it. What you would want to look out for is Viscosity and try to match that at least.

    FixItRight...you probably saw some sort of gum up because you added MIN oil to a refrigerant that is not soluble with MIN. Such as R-134a, R-404A, R-507A, R-410A

    And FYI, Icemeister is one of the most knowledgeable people on this site...so be respectful...sheesh.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,064
    And you guys who said POE is backwards compatible with all refrigerant except R-12...DON'T DOUBT YOURSELF'S so quickly. There is a reason why you see POE blocked out on oil/refrigerant compatibility charts.

    RobY explains it well.

    "Copeland's recommendation against R-12 and POE is for long term use only. Short term during retrofits is OK. Leaving R-12 and POE in a system long term is bad if the R-12 breaks down due to excess moisture and high temperature resulting in acidity. The acidity will rip the POE apart and cause big problems. In a retrofit, the time the POE is exposed to R-12 is too short to worry about R-12 breakdown. The same would also be true with R-11, R-113, R-114, R-123 and R-141b."

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-89793.html

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    521
    Thanks Phase Loss,
    That restores my sanity a bit.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    The OP is asking about mixing POE and MIN in an R-22 system

    POE & MIN are both soluble in R-22...hell even throw in some AB.

    As long as the oil is soluble in the refrigerant...it doesn't matter how you mix it. What you would want to look out for is Viscosity and try to match that at least.

    FixItRight...you probably saw some sort of gum up because you added MIN oil to a refrigerant that is not soluble with MIN. Such as R-134a, R-404A, R-507A, R-410A

    And FYI, Icemeister is one of the most knowledgeable people on this site...so be respectful...sheesh.
    NO it was a R22 system. Also Icemeister and you might be very knowledgeable but in this case I have seen it and it can and does gum up when you mix Poe and Min together. You can mix them all you want but first you might want to think of a way to tell your customer that their unit is down.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,418
    Quote Originally Posted by FixItRight

    NO it was a R22 system. Also Icemeister and you might be very knowledgeable but in this case I have seen it and it can and does gum up when you mix Poe and Min together. You can mix them all you want but first you might want to think of a way to tell your customer that their unit is down.
    You had a dirty system to begin with.

    POE and Mineral do not create sludge.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    EVERYWHERE
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    You had a dirty system to begin with.

    POE and Mineral do not create sludge.
    The system was clean. I have seen it R22 and Poe. Replaced compressor and was told it had Poe in it but turns out it was min. Run unit and it later goes off on oil pressure. Found core driers and strainer in oil sump gummed up.So like I said before I have seen firsthand that Poe and Min gum up.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,418
    Quote Originally Posted by FixItRight

    The system was clean. I have seen it R22 and Poe. Replaced compressor and was told it had Poe in it but turns out it was min. Run unit and it later goes off on oil pressure. Found core driers and strainer in oil sump gummed up.So like I said before I have seen firsthand that Poe and Min gum up.
    My experiences and many others do not agree with yours.

    This leads me I believe that there is another factor that you are not aware of that caused your problem.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    27
    I've added mineral to a r-22 system using poe to help return oil that was trapped in the system(due to an incorrect trap). I did eventually do several complete oil changes to get back to all poe, but no gumming occured.

    You'll find poe in most medium temp r-22 systems because the refrigerant carries it better than mineral at a lower saturated suction temp.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,418
    Quote Originally Posted by ndk1911
    I've added mineral to a r-22 system using poe to help return oil that was trapped in the system(due to an incorrect trap). I did eventually do several complete oil changes to get back to all poe, but no gumming occured.

    You'll find poe in most medium temp r-22 systems because the refrigerant carries it better than mineral at a lower saturated suction temp.
    ...and it didn't instantly turn to concrete and plug all of the filters, driers, screens, strainers, valves, scramble the compressor internals and dissolve the copper piping?


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,375
    I read an article by one of DuPont engineers regarding the conversion of existing r-22 systems to 438a (mo-99) and he recommends mixing a little POE with the system mineral oil to increase return.

    check it out

    http://www2.dupont.com/ISCEON/en_US/...ue_Allgood.pdf

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