Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 53 to 65 of 89
  1. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Written for a Canadian audience but with the perspective of someone who has been in Afghanistan.

    Speed up withdrawal from Afghanistan?

    MOSCOW -- As perhaps the only independent witness to every phase of Canada's military engagement in Afghanistan from 2002 to this year, I have always been among the evolving mission's strongest backers. I have observed what has been learned and what has been accomplished, and have always come away impressed by the soldiers and leaders who are part of what is the best small army in the world.

    But only a couple of weeks after visiting Canada's trainers in Kabul and Herat, I am in a quandary.

    What a lone American sergeant did early Sunday morning -- patiently going door to door in a parched stretch of rural Kandahar that was for more than five years a Canadian responsibility, to murder 16 sleeping Afghan civilians, including nine kids -- is beyond comprehension.

    What the consequences will be for coalition troops -- including slightly more than 900 Canadian advisers, who work closely every day with thousands of Afghan soldiers and police -- is unknown. But consequences can surely be expected for the actions of this soldier, who was apparently able to walk off by himself because he was attached to a group of U.S. Special Forces commandos who frequently operate outside of forward operating bases....
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...142432715.html
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Written for a Canadian audience but with the perspective of someone who has been in Afghanistan.
    You'd have to dig hard to find out about where many of us have been, but I'm sure the people who know how can do it. Who cares? This person obviously went overboard and needs help, not a lot of clamouring for his head, or to turn him over to the Afghan justice system (next to no justice as we know it). The stress of long term exposure to battlefield conditions is only now being partially understood, never point the finger until you've walked in those shoes!

    Not being nasty, just another

  3. #55
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ripley, WV
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    You'd have to dig hard to find out about where many of us have been, but I'm sure the people who know how can do it. Who cares? This person obviously went overboard and needs help, not a lot of clamouring for his head, or to turn him over to the Afghan justice system (next to no justice as we know it). The stress of long term exposure to battlefield conditions is only now being partially understood, never point the finger until you've walked in those shoes!

    Not being nasty, just another
    That's why I changed my stand on it, granted its terrible, but at the same time he won't get a fair trial by Afghan authorities and we don't know all the details yet. I supose we should pray for his family in this situation, because when his name is released, it will set off a media firestorm around them and the children will have that stigma on them as they go through school.

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    You'd have to dig hard to find out about where many of us have been, but I'm sure the people who know how can do it. Who cares? This person obviously went overboard and needs help, not a lot of clamouring for his head, or to turn him over to the Afghan justice system (next to no justice as we know it). The stress of long term exposure to battlefield conditions is only now being partially understood, never point the finger until you've walked in those shoes!

    Not being nasty, just another
    Might sound cruel but I do not care one bit whether he has mental problems due to being in combat, whether his wife has been cheating on him, whether he was abused as a kid or not. He has caused the death of many innocent people and in turn will cause the death of soldiers in the future. If a trial is held and he gets let off due to mental stability hell will be paid by our troops. It is not like he just snapped and did not know what he was doing. He collected night vision equipment along with his weapon left the base and methodically went through a number of houses killing all the inhabitants. If there is no consequences for a soldier wiping out an extended family, how are the inhabitants of the country suppose to feel safe?
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Might sound cruel but I do not care one bit whether he has mental problems due to being in combat, whether his wife has been cheating on him, whether he was abused as a kid or not. He has caused the death of many innocent people and in turn will cause the death of soldiers in the future. If a trial is held and he gets let off due to mental stability hell will be paid by our troops. It is not like he just snapped and did not know what he was doing. He collected night vision equipment along with his weapon left the base and methodically went through a number of houses killing all the inhabitants. If there is no consequences for a soldier wiping out an extended family, how are the inhabitants of the country suppose to feel safe?
    So, I throw you into a long term combat mission with all kinds of gore and horrific things happening to you, and then throw you into another situation where all you see (in your own eyes) is that everyone is against you and your buds are getting mowed down like flies and NO ONE CARES?

    When your head gets turned around, your head gets turned around, and thank goodness he was not a tactical nuclear missile technician (with a little help from his friends) ... Some of you will recognize that...

    Now, we have this person who "allegedly" but probably went over the edge, and we've got 90% Americans and 97.99% Canadians condemning this guy to the "Hang'em High" philosophy.

    Does no one stop to think about why or how this person who is a well decorated professional soldier (from media) with a family back home would do this as a rational person?

    There's more to this than what we are hearing right now, BUT there's NO way this person should be turned over to the Afghanistan so called "authorities"...

    My ...

    Sorry all, I'm just PO'd at trying to help the world and being kicked around about it... I guess I'm just wrong!
    Last edited by enb54; 03-14-2012 at 02:36 AM. Reason: spelling philosophy

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    So, I throw you into a long term combat mission with all kinds of gore and horrific things happening to you, and then throw you into another situation where all you see (in your own eyes) is that everyone is against you and your buds are getting mowed down like flies and NO ONE CARES?

    When your head gets turned around, your head gets turned around, and thank goodness he was not a tactical nuclear missile technician (with a little help from his friends) ... Some of you will recognize that...

    Now, we have this person who "allegedly" but probably went over the edge, and we've got 90% Americans and 97.99% Canadians condemning this guy to the "Hang'em High" philosophy.

    Does no one stop to think about why or how this person who is a well decorated professional soldier (from media) with a family back home would do this as a rational person?

    There's more to this than what we are hearing right now, BUT there's NO way this person should be turned over to the Afghanistan so called "authorities"...

    My ...

    Sorry all, I'm just PO'd at trying to help the world and being kicked around about it... I guess I'm just wrong!
    There is more grater things at risk here than one man. All the lives spent up to this point is at risk. If this man is a turning point where we end up throwing all that we have done away it would be a greater tragedy. If there was no consequence in his action, maybe another man with less of a problem may just decide to do major harm. Part of what stops us in our impulses is knowing the consequences. If he went out knowing he would die in his quest for causing death and destruction you can say he lost it. To cause this much damage and then scurry back to the safety of the base says he had some common sense left.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    18,067
    Being attached to a special forces unit, how do you know that he wasn't ordered to do this?
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Being attached to a special forces unit, how do you know that he wasn't ordered to do this?
    In this day and age, I can't imagine any sane person giving orders or receiving orders and obeying them which are clearly against the military code (killing civilians).

    This obviously is going to harm the reputations of those NATO people who are left in Afghanistan, but that's another issue. The real issue here is likely one of mental health, but somehow a lot of people seem to have got the "Get a rope" fixation as a solution at the top of their list.

    If this was your own son and he snapped (obvious to me anyway) would you want judge, jury and executioner instantly or would you at least want to find out what went wrong? It is too bad about the loss of life, but don't you at least want to find out perhaps what drove him to this?

    Most of those barbarians over there don't care (even about the victims), what those idiots care about is the chance to capitalize on the publicity generated by this sad event. Religious fanatics who drive their followers to commit atrocious acts which are as bad, but never get this kind of publicity.

    Everyone should step back for a minute and THINK...

    Just my own opinions, not trying to put a sharp stick in your eye (unless you desecrate Allied WWII graves)

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    329
    not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    It is too bad about the loss of life
    If this was your own son and he snapped (obvious to me anyway) would you want judge, jury and executioner instantly or would you at least want to find out what went wrong?
    It seems that a criminal's family has more worth than that of the kin of the dead. Oh wait, he almost wiped out the whole family, so I guess they do not count. Guess the Afghani's should be told 'too bad' when they get killed.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  11. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    It seems that a criminal's family has more worth than that of the kin of the dead. Oh wait, he almost wiped out the whole family, so I guess they do not count. Guess the Afghani's should be told 'too bad' when they get killed.
    Insanity and criminal do not go together, I'm giving this person the benefit of doubt until proved guilty. I just can't conceive that this person did this while sane, but if so, then let the military and perhaps the civilian justice system deal with him appropriately. It is disgusting when these things happen, but they do happen so we've got to find out why, there just are no immediate answers when these distasteful events occur...

    This reminds me of My Lai, another very nasty event...

  12. #64
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ripley, WV
    Posts
    1,202
    This man has fought in 4 different tours of duty, he did so "In defense of our country" and that includes our constitution which grants us the right of due process. If he is simply put through kangaroo court and executed without a through investigation INCLUDING a psych evaluation then we are trampling on the constitution, a crime of which many of us accuse Obama of. This man has been in combat for approx 58 months since enlisting after 9/11 so he needs to be given a fair trial. I hate it just as bad as anyone, but we need to uphold the same constitution that all these men and women are defending.

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,725
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    Insanity and criminal do not go together, I'm giving this person the benefit of doubt until proved guilty. I just can't conceive that this person did this while sane, but if so, then let the military and perhaps the civilian justice system deal with him appropriately. It is disgusting when these things happen, but they do happen so we've got to find out why, there just are no immediate answers when these distasteful events occur...

    This reminds me of My Lai, another very nasty event...
    Some folks just crack up under stress. I was in the 11th Armored Cav and while spending few days stand down at Lai Kay Base camp up QL 13 North of Saigon one trooper just opened up on a passing bus from his bunker on the perimeter berm. A few got killed an others injured. He was of course arrested and never heard from him again.

    While passing through villages along the road (all dirt roads outside of Saigon) we could tell right away if they were VC villages or not. In VC villages no kids would come out to wave at us like at other villages where we would throw them candy (they gave us more candy than we could eat) when we drove by on our tracks.

    One VC village in particular I remember. While on a road march our troop set up a perimeter near the village and bivouacked for the night. That night we received incoming fire from the jungle line 100 yards away. We opened up where it was coming from and then it stopped. Then a few hours later we got a few 82mm mortar rounds lopped in. We were all buttoned up and no direct hits. Our mortar platoon responded quickly with our 81mm rounds in the direction of the incoming. Lots of fun.

    Anyhow pulling out next morning we went by the commie village on the way out and I saw 3 kids (10 to 12) standing on a mound making lewd jesters at us implying that we suck their you know what. We all held our cool. Yours truly wanted to open up on them with my 50 cal since they were obvious VC but I let it go.

    We marked the village with a red X indicating a VC village. We would generally mount planned operations on those villages. Surround them quietly after night fall and then open up on anyone coming or going to and from the village.

    Outside the green zone in downtown Saigon there was a dusk to dawn curfew. You would open up on any movement at night because they were either NVA or VC. In the morning we would then go in and search for weapons, ammo, uniforms and suspicious males to be interrogated.

    Let me just say My Lai was a VC village and that was wrong what they did but those villagers planted mines and sniped at Capt. Medina and Lt. Calley's unit. They cracked under stress and lost it. Those civilians should not have been murdered but they were VC and were responsible for the deaths of many of the comrades of the soldiers who lost it. War is hell but I can understand what happened but not condone it of course. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event