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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    459
    Agreed, very good information. Thanks for posting that.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    20
    anybody use the starter pow-are-paks with any problems?

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    1,493

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by gravity View Post
    .......2. loose wires on the peckerhead.......
    I resemble that remark and find it highly offensive.
    The picture in my avatar is of the Houston Ship Channel and was taken from my backyard. I like to sit outside and slap mosquitos while watching countless supertankers, barges and cargo ships of every shape and size carry all sorts of deadly toxins to and fro. It's really beautiful at times.....just don't eat the three eyed fish....

    `. .` .>(((>

    `... `. .` .>(((>

    .` .>(((>

    LMAOSHMSFOAIDMT

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Glennhvac View Post
    Yeah if I can find them near me! Plus I guess they are not advised for scrolls so that is another issue.
    I think the "not advised" wording is a little misleading.

    What the scroll guys are saying is that because a scroll starts basically unloaded, there should be no need for a start assist device. However, there are times when one is indeed indicated. The scroll motor is electrically identical to a recip motor. Only the method of compression is the difference when it comes to loading on startup.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  5. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I think the "not advised" wording is a little misleading.

    What the scroll guys are saying is that because a scroll starts basically unloaded, there should be no need for a start assist device. However, there are times when one is indeed indicated. The scroll motor is electrically identical to a recip motor. Only the method of compression is the difference when it comes to loading on startup.
    I admit some ignorance on the internal mechanics of the scroll compared to a recip. I think what I gather by 'unloaded' is that they can and will start easier than a recip under the non equalized pressures you find so often with the new txv coils?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Stumptown,USA
    Posts
    1,249
    There are a lot of informative videos on youtube, just search refrigeration compressors. I also like the 5-2-1.
    Challenge yourself, take the CM test --- Certificate Member since 2004 ---Join RSES ---the HVAC/R training authority ---www.rses.org

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Glennhvac View Post
    I admit some ignorance on the internal mechanics of the scroll compared to a recip. I think what I gather by 'unloaded' is that they can and will start easier than a recip under the non equalized pressures you find so often with the new txv coils?
    It's a smoother, more gradual start because the scrolls take several revolutions to build a pressure that is greater than the discharge line pressure, whereas a recip builds that pressure in a stroke or two of the pistons, which is often one or two revolutions, so the load on the recip motor is much steeper from rest to running at RLA.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    513
    Thanks for all the feedback , help and advice. I really had not heard of those 3-2-1 kits and hope to find a parts place around me that handles them. I also hope there is enough room in these downsized control sections to install them.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Glennhvac View Post
    I admit some ignorance on the internal mechanics of the scroll compared to a recip. I think what I gather by 'unloaded' is that they can and will start easier than a recip under the non equalized pressures you find so often with the new txv coils?
    The internal pressures on the pumping mechanism in a scroll compressor equalize nearly instantly when it turns off because there are no discharge or suction valves to prevent it.
    There is a check valve in the discharge outlet of the compressor shell to prevent the system pressures from equalizing through the compressor, but there is no pressure difference across the actual pumping mechanism, so scroll compressor always start fully unloaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glennhvac View Post
    TI really had not heard of those 3-2-1 kits
    "5-2-1"
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    The internal pressures on the pumping mechanism in a scroll compressor equalize nearly instantly when it turns off because there are no discharge or suction valves to prevent it.
    There is a check valve in the discharge outlet of the compressor shell to prevent the system pressures from equalizing through the compressor, but there is no pressure difference across the actual pumping mechanism, so scroll compressor always start fully unloaded.



    "5-2-1"
    Today was good! I learned this. Thanks

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Palm Beach,Fl.
    Posts
    921
    Another 5-2-1 Convert here. No more kickstart for me. Still use OEM kits for Trane stuff whenever possible though
    Quote Originally Posted by k-fridge View Post
    The laws of physics know no brand names.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine, Florida, United States
    Posts
    1,149
    so I meter the start caps when diagnosing and find some of them bad, I sometimes reuse the existing pot relay and just change the cap. Keep some in my van. Usually the relay is still good. Anyone object to this, I am talking about getting a compressor up and running when it just won't start.......meter goes up and then down on a start cap, I crimp a terminal end on the resistor and reconnect to the terminal when done. What would happen if the resistor was left unattached?

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    south jersey
    Posts
    1,088
    I guess I will be throwing away all my super boost. Great thread. This is why I am here every day. Very informative. Thanks for all the info gentleman.
    You need to put the phone down and get back to work!

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