How do you the employee handle this situation?

[cold in alberta]

that must be all your journeyman combined, I was an employee before and an owner I worked for was pretty open with me as he saw me level headed, I can tell you that he was making much more than his journeyman, in fact he was making 7 times what his journeyman grossed, he was making net. And we were paid $40/h.

I'm not saying there is something wrong with an owner making his money, he takes the risk, puts out the money for vehicles, building lease, advertising, equipment and so on, but to say that you make 'less', come on

so at 40/hr per journeyman x 7 times what they were making=280/hr x 2080 hrs per year=582,400 soooooooooo if he had 5 journeymen that equals 2.9 million net money-somehow i find it very hard to believe

[wahoo]

JR, The previous owner showed poor judgement in discussing his income. I receive a weekly check just as all our employees do, however as an owner of both the business and real estate, there are other "revenue" streams we benefit from. I've never (in over 30 years) discussed my income with employees. That's private and between me and my family (and accountant) only!

[jrmech]

JR, The previous owner showed poor judgement in discussing his income. I receive a weekly check just as all our employees do, however as an owner of both the business and real estate, there are other "revenue" streams we benefit from. I've never (in over 30 years) discussed my income with employees. That's private and between me and my family (and accountant) only!

I would never do it either, that was just the type of relationship we had and over beers he spilled the beans

Nothing wrong with a boss making money, just don't act like you don't as you are actually insulting the intelligence of some of you techs..that was the only point to my comment.

[Jesjen829]

i look at it this way, its none of my bosses business what i spend my money so i shouldnt be concerned with his spending. i wouldnt like it if my boss told me i go out to eat too much or that i rent too many movies. if you dont like your boss or the company you work for, you should seek employment elsewhere. lots of good bosses out there. just have to keep looking till you find a good one.

[dumnut]

i look at it this way, its none of my bosses business what i spend my money so i shouldnt be concerned with his spending.

I agree that it is none of your business how the boss spends his money … but it is your business to try and figure out how much money he is making. That is how the free market works best. If your boss is making extraordinary pay, then it is likely that the market would benefit from more competition, and perhaps you and a few co-workers should start a new company.

As I see it, the major problem with our economy is that large business owners have used government regulation to make it difficult for would-be competitors to enter the market.

Things like payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, health insurance, licensing, and trade taxes all make it harder for competitors to enter the market. If all these “barriers to entry” were lifted, then the market would be free to equalize the wide gap between what workers get to keep and how much they must forfeit to the boss.

When competition is allowed to flourish, wages trend to the maximum and profits trend to the minimum. If your boss is making a great deal more money than you are, then the most likely cause of that is that barrier building government regulation is helping him pocket much of your production.

[wahoo]

Dumnut,
"Barrier building government regulation is helping him (your boss) pocket much of your production" Uh....you are kidding right? I can only ASSUME you are not an owner, or employer yourself if you actually believe such an erroneous statement. I totally agree there are many regulations that require owners to carry things like licenses and insurance, but don't understand the statement about this enables us to "pocket much (of the employee's) production"....this escapes me totally. From your statement it sounds like you're kind of "not an establishment" kind of person. I grew up in the 60s, but reality and the need to provide for my family kind of "wised" me up. I now resemble my father, which seems fine as he was a great dad!! Life is sort of like a game, you either join in and play, or sit on the sidelines and simply "age" in place.

[dumnut]

From your statement it sounds like you're kind of "not an establishment" kind of person.

I am firmly against rent-seeking -- and believe with all my heart that it is destroying this nation.

If you take a few minutes to read this you will better understand the context of my post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

[freemind]

I belive what dumnut is saying is, if there are few businesses to employ people, wages go down and competition for a job gets fierce. The employee is the one that looses.

It is the benefit of "bigger business" to have government regulate away competition. No competition means business can charge whatever it wants.

Couple that with a glut of out of work workers, and business makes whatever they choose.

[John Markl]

Couple that with a glut of out of work workers, and business makes whatever they choose.

I think you're misunderstanding how business works. When the economy is down, business are hurt....bad.

We want a good economy, and good business. It's a matter of efficiency of scale. I have to pay my office gal regardless of whether I have two techs or six.

I have to pay the utility bill whether I have two employees or six.

There is the law of supply and demand. Demand is down. So we have to lay people off or reduce their pay. A "down" economy doesn't me that we make "whatever we choose". We may be able to pay less, but we also don't have as much business as we had during the boom economy.

What we make is a function of how much business we have, and what our costs are.

[freemind]

I understand just fine John. I know how it works.

I will give you an example later, since I have to work. Can't play on the computer all day.

[John Markl]

As I see it, the major problem with our economy is that large business owners have used government regulation to make it difficult for would-be competitors to enter the market.

Things like payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, health insurance, licensing, and trade taxes all make it harder for competitors to enter the market. If all these “barriers to entry” were lifted, then the market would be free to equalize the wide gap between what workers get to keep and how much they must forfeit to the boss.

I'd be curious to know where you obtained your business knowledge.

Payroll taxes and unemployment insurance pose no "barrier" for anyone to enter the business market. Health insurance is not mandatory, and thus poses no barrier whatsoever.

They don't "forefit" anything "to the boss". Taxes are withheld, matched and remitted to the government. Unemployment taxes do not come from the employee, they come from the employer.

You sound like a failed businessperson, or a malcontented employee. Either way, your apparent knowledge of business is clearly lacking.

With over 40,000 licensed HVAC contractors in the state of Texas, there is NO shortage of "competition".....

[wahoo]

John....John....John....now you're gonna get Dumnut and Freemind ganging up!!!!

I grew up in the 60s, in the days of "free love"..sadly for some guys (not me) it was never free and never will be. Open and "free" entrance into professional trades will never be "free" either...thank god.

But then again, what the heck do we know??

[John Markl]

But then again, what the heck do we know??

Amazing.....how some people who have ZERO experience owning a business, think they have ALL the answers.....when they don't even know the questions...

[freemind]

I think you're misunderstanding how business works. When the economy is down, business are hurt....bad.

We want a good economy, and good business. It's a matter of efficiency of scale. I have to pay my office gal regardless of whether I have two techs or six.

I have to pay the utility bill whether I have two employees or six.

There is the law of supply and demand. Demand is down. So we have to lay people off or reduce their pay. A "down" economy doesn't me that we make "whatever we choose". We may be able to pay less, but we also don't have as much business as we had during the boom economy.

What we make is a function of how much business we have, and what our costs are.

Ok, NOW I will explain.

Please tell me how you could go about starting a petroleum distillery. Ain't happening. You can't BUILD one because government and oil corporations say a resounding "NO". Regulated out of your paws.

You want to start selling milk. You buy say, a dozen head of cattle, and all the equipment you need. You decide you want to sell "raw" milk that is "organic". Sorry, big AG and government say a resounding "NO".

Hey, HOW about a neuclear power plant? Oh, thats right "NO".

BUT, according to the expert, John Markl, ANYONE can start a business....

Even John Markl supports governmental controls/regulations to restrict new business.

I see things for what they are. I don't have to lie or be misleading. You don't have the answers, and you won't tell me any different. You just don't impress me....

[dumnut]

I'd be curious to know where you obtained your business knowledge.

From books and the school of hard-knocks.

Payroll taxes and unemployment insurance pose no "barrier" for anyone to enter the business market.

They are just one more thing to have to worry about … for some would-be competitors who dislike paperwork, that would be enough to keep them from entering the market which they would otherwise excel at.

Health insurance is not mandatory, and thus poses no barrier whatsoever.

It gives the “established” an edge, especially in industries where it is common to supply health insurance.

They don't "forefit" anything "to the boss".

Yes they do. We can see this in the case of “illegal” side work which usually pays a substantial amount more then working for “the boss man”. The consumer also saves by bypassing “the boss man” -- so it isn’t only the employee that the boss is taking to the cleaner, it is also the consumer. The boss is usually only there to make the transaction “legal” for those who are fetish about such things.

Taxes are withheld, matched and remitted to the government.

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with refrigeration work?

Unemployment taxes do not come from the employee, they come from the employer.

It is apparent that you know little of economics … Google “tax burden shifting” and start reading. Seriously, you will learn a lot, and you know so little. Anyway, it isn’t about who pays the tax, it is about the burden of compliance, and that burden falls on the employer. I think you are forgetting that I want to relieve the employer of these burdens, thus making it easier for individuals to employ themselves.

You sound like a failed businessperson, or a malcontented employee.

And you sound like an apologist for privilege and injustice.

Either way, your apparent knowledge of business is clearly lacking.

As is yours of economics.

With over 40,000 licensed HVAC contractors in the state of Texas, there is NO shortage of "competition".....

I would leave that to the market to decide.

[OldSchoolMech]

This Thread was a Good Read
How is he a "Pro Member" If he has to Take classes and doesnt work in the HVAC/R Field?

[John Markl]

This Thread was a Good Read
How is he a "Pro Member" If he has to Take classes and doesnt work in the HVAC/R Field?

[John Markl]

You just don't impress me....

Oh.....God......my......life......is......ruined.. .....

[freemind]

This Thread was a Good Read
How is he a "Pro Member" If he has to Take classes and doesnt work in the HVAC/R Field?

Because I met the qualifacations.

[wahoo]

Dear John.....since this is "Good Friday", I'll say a silent prayer for you............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ....................."May you someday know as much as Freemind".........Oh dear lord...........................