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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    .
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,114
    Almost no companies brazes with nitrogen. It takes to long to setup, it cost extra money, and truly doesn't cause much issue when you consider the compressor in your unit comes with metal shavings. Things of this nature is the purpose of a Liquid Line Filter Dryer. I would be more concerned that they used a micron meter correctly after the brazing then if they brazed with nitrogen.

    I have seen the video you are referring too. What that video doesn't talk about is that the guy had his acetylene high or his oxygen low which causes excess soot. He was also brazing an open ended copper pipe so of course he had more soot inside the pipe then he normally would. Not to mention it takes me a grand total of 20 seconds to do the same braze he did. It took him 7 secs at 10x speed. lolol

    Pay the man he did his job. This is one situation were you are getting overly worried, which as far as I am concerned is a good thing in the right moderation.
    If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    Here is an American Standard heat pump install manual. Look on page 3. American Standard and Trane come out of the same factory. Usually only the cabinet is different. The Trane Manual will say the same thing. Show the owner. maybe that will help.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    930
    Kitra, there are many things we do because they are considered "best practice". Nitrogen purge is one of those things. Does that mean that a system put in without performing that practice will fail? No. Is it more likely to fail than one that was purged? Yes. Not flowing nitrogen is one of many reasons that a system could develop issues from. If as you said all other aspects of the job were done satisfactorily, I see no real cause for alarm. If you did your homework and hired a reputable company with a history of serving their customer, then pay the balance and enjoy your new system.
    "Customer Service" is not a department, it's an attitude!
    ???

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    Quote Originally Posted by XcelTech View Post
    Almost no companies brazes with nitrogen. It takes to long to setup, it cost extra money, and truly doesn't cause much issue when you consider the compressor in your unit comes with metal shavings. Things of this nature is the purpose of a Liquid Line Filter Dryer. I would be more concerned that they used a micron meter correctly after the brazing then if they brazed with nitrogen.

    I have seen the video you are referring too. What that video doesn't talk about is that the guy had his acetylene high or his oxygen low which causes excess soot. He was also brazing an open ended copper pipe so of course he had more soot inside the pipe then he normally would. Not to mention it takes me a grand total of 20 seconds to do the same braze he did. It took him 7 secs at 10x speed. lolol

    Pay the man he did his job. This is one situation were you are getting overly worried, which as far as I am concerned is a good thing in the right moderation.
    Since when do compressors come with metal shavings? And if the torch mix is wrong, that will only cause extra SOOT OR scale on the OUTSIDE! Soot is not the issue, scale is. Sounds like you are mistaken.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Neill View Post
    Here is an American Standard heat pump install manual. Look on page 3. American Standard and Trane come out of the same factory. Usually only the cabinet is different. The Trane Manual will say the same thing. Show the owner. maybe that will help.
    It will probably be the first time the dealer will have read the statement.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Neill View Post
    Since when do compressors come with metal shavings? And if the torch mix is wrong, that will only cause extra SOOT OR scale on the OUTSIDE! Soot is not the issue, scale is. Sounds like you are mistaken.
    I was having trouble with that, too.

    Now, the prolonged heating is one thing, but there I can't see any effects from a misadjusted torch.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    It will probably be the first time the dealer will have read the statement.


    Everyone KNOWS that you're supposed to flow nitrogen when brazing....but I suspect the number of nitrogen flowing brazers is right up there with the number of guys that use wet rags on the valves....
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,341
    If a job is worth doing.................
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,114
    New compressor have SOME metal shavings, They aren't built like harddrives in dust free rooms. You always have some residuals. That is why after replacing a compressor you are suppose to replace the LLFD after 24 hours of run time. No one ever does because it is expensive.

    I agree with you on the soot, I did mean scale.

    This guy, like I said, Is welding within 10 inch of an open ended copper pipe. I took him over a minute to complete it. Where does heat transfer? From hottest to coldest. Where is the coldest area of the pipe? Near the open end of the pipe. You think some of that gas isn't gonna climb into the pipe 10 inches from the end? Watch the video you see him dump out soot! Not scale. A whole cigarette doesn't have that much ash. I am sorry sir I must disagree with you. If you would like to continue this conversation I would be happy to do so in private messages.
    If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    I have done the same demo myself many times, starting 20 years ago. To show new hires what happens when brazing without nitro. What I got out of the pipe was scale. I have done it with short stubs and long ones. Scale was always the result. Soot is not gritty. Gritty black stuff is scale.

    So I will have to disagree.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cal
    Posts
    1,596
    A well respected member here posted sometime back that he went on a factory tour and viewed joints(certainly more than 6) made with no purge as a practice, so it's obviously far from crucial.

    The balance is due, if not past due.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    20

    Thanks everyone.

    I'd hire Kevin any day of the week.....

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