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  1. #1

    Electrical Whips

    Since I can remember we have always installed whips when needed. Never really thought much about it until I actually researched it my self because I wanted to more about electrical wires and proper sizes.
    Anyways all HVAC supply houses we go to sell either 1/2" Whips with #10 Wire and 3/4" Whips with #8 Wire.

    This issue I have it this. Many of the units we have installed have 10kw heat. Well When a home is wired for 10kw they use #6 Wire.

    With that being said many of the units were installed using either 1/2 whip or 3/4 whip. Im not really sure as to which were used where.

    Any information would be great!
    Thanks!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,553
    Whips are for condensers, not air handlers...
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,653
    ^^^^^
    "...and pray it works, pray to God it works."

    ---Nick's Handyman

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGllepZY2HE

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,553
    There are specific rules that dictate wire size. And protection requirements for heating elements... Follow those rules, or have an electrician perform the wiring.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,755
    I want some pictures.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  6. #6
    I agree with you guys. For future reference we will be fabricating our own whips when it comes to homes 10KW ( if they are needed )
    The question is. Is this a huge safety concern for the previously installed units.
    Im having one of my guys check the units that may possibly have under sized whips on the units with 10kw but im on the fence about the others.
    What would you guys do in your professional opinion?

    Its funny though that the supply houses will sell them and say they are good for 10kw even when the wire is undersized. The only reason i figured this out is because ive been trying to educate my self further on the electrical end because Many people ask us to change breakers out but I dont allow my guys to do that because its a liability. Many houses arent wired properly and i dont want us tied to that issue.

    Thanks for the help!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,553
    we are unable to advise wire size and connection techniques on the open forum. build up your post count, and submit your credentials and apply for pro status, and the training materials are abundant.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,553
    but every undersized in conduit wire is a fire hazzard... if not a failure point in the wiring.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Birmingham Al
    Posts
    302
    what type of wire is in the whip? fine strand wire is different then regular wire.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,569
    Since you are concerned about electrical whips and heat, I must assume you are installing packaged units.

    There are two primary pieces of information in play.

    1) Minimum Circuit Ampacity, and

    2) Maximum Overcurrent Protection Device.

    The MCA is your value to take to the appropriate NEC conductor ampacity table. For this reason, it is often referred to as the "selection current," because you are using it to select the conductor type and size, along with any necessary adjustments or correction for bundling and other-than-86 F ambient temperatures.

    In order to do this properly, you will need to take some instruction. Raceways longer than 24" are subject to the fill capacities based on the size of the raceway and the type of insulation being used on the conductors.

    All of this is specified in the Code. Residential and commercial codes get their electrical information from the NEC. You should find a local electrician to teach you about this, or simply have him do it for you.

    Remember, local authorities having jurisdiction can be more restrictive than the published Codes, but they must have their wishes adopted as ordinances.

    Questions?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,569
    Quote Originally Posted by hartwickac View Post
    I agree with you guys. For future reference we will be fabricating our own whips when it comes to homes 10KW ( if they are needed )
    The question is. Is this a huge safety concern for the previously installed units.
    Im having one of my guys check the units that may possibly have under sized whips on the units with 10kw but im on the fence about the others.
    What would you guys do in your professional opinion?

    Its funny though that the supply houses will sell them and say they are good for 10kw even when the wire is undersized. The only reason i figured this out is because ive been trying to educate my self further on the electrical end because Many people ask us to change breakers out but I dont allow my guys to do that because its a liability. Many houses arent wired properly and i dont want us tied to that issue.

    Thanks for the help!
    When you get Pro status, send me a PM (it works when you have Pro status) and I will send you a link to some great online training that can help you to pass any electrical licensing test.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #12
    My intent is not to become a electrician but it is to have basic knowledge to ensure my technicians are operating safely in the field. In all the years i have done this and working for other companies its not something that was ever brought up but I believe its a important aspect.

    I will in the end have Electricians complete complex wiring. ( all we do is whips )

    But basically Im just looking for a list to go by so when we go out to do the estimate we can determine if the wiring is correct ( within in our scope of work ) and that the house is safe and sound

    Basically im wondering what wire size is needed for
    20 amps
    30 amps
    35 amps
    40 amps
    45 amps
    50 amps
    55 amps
    60 amps

    5 kw - 30 amps
    8 kw - 50 amps
    10 kw - 60 amps

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    638
    Every 10kW heat circuit I have ever seen has been #8 THHN.....I hear they are requiring #6 now. Is my area just behind the times? These are all hooked up to a 60 amp breaker and pull -40 amps.

    I have seen probably a thousand in retrofit applications, always #8.

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