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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Kansas City, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    13,833
    I came in MES serviceman for one year.
    during that year I paid less dues.
    ofcourse so would a first year apprentice?
    On my one year anniversary date i started paying full dues and the same pensions as a BTJ.
    I WILL SELL WORK,GENERATE BUSINESS, GO GET NEW CUSTOMERS!
    YOU SHUT THE HELL UP AND QUIT RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,407
    Quote Originally Posted by supertek65 View Post
    but a MES journeyman can!
    I have never heard of a MES getting less for pension?
    wow what a krappi local!
    It would only take a few service guys to go to a meeting and that would be over!

    if you look on page 22, once they are an MES journeyman they get the same pension.
    I guess if you came in MES for 2 years before becoming an MESJ you would have gotten a little screwed on your pension?
    In my local there are plumbers,service techs and pipefittrs together, all classified as BTJ and participants of the local pension plan administer by our health and welfare guy, BTJ's are not part of the international pension plan, they dont contribute and wont get it. Then there are MES(J), they get the health care and training through our local and the pension plan from international, and yet nobody knows for sure how much they'll get per year vested, somebody told me it was $45, so after 25 years they get around $1100 a month from international.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,407
    Quote Originally Posted by supertek65 View Post
    I came in MES serviceman for one year.
    during that year I paid less dues.
    ofcourse so would a first year apprentice?
    On my one year anniversary date i started paying full dues and the same pensions as a BTJ.
    Our MES dont pay any dues for 6 month after that they pay the same as BTJ, $30 out of pocket a month and $28 deducted from the paycheck a week.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Kansas City, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    13,833
    wow!

    do i have it right?

    mesj gets international only.

    btj gets local only.



    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    In my local there are plumbers,service techs and pipefittrs together, all classified as BTJ and participants of the local pension plan administer by our health and welfare guy, BTJ's are not part of the international pension plan, they dont contribute and wont get it. Then there are MES(J), they get the health care and training through our local and the pension plan from international, and yet nobody knows for sure how much they'll get per year vested, somebody told me it was $45, so after 25 years they get around $1100 a month from international.
    I WILL SELL WORK,GENERATE BUSINESS, GO GET NEW CUSTOMERS!
    YOU SHUT THE HELL UP AND QUIT RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    This is another one of those adult diaper situations, depends. Depending upon how your particular local is structured is what drives it. Here, we have BTJ which is fitters, MESJ which is hightonnage service guys, and MES which is low tonnage guys. There used to be very clear defining lines, but over the years, they have become grey areas. Around here, many BTJ guys (like myself) did high tonnage service as well as pipefitting. Other MESJ guys only do high tonnage service. MES guys did service up to a certain tonnage or boiler size for example, and install of splits up to fifty tons. Those lines are now all effed up, as MESJ is becoming extinct, as are BTJ guys who do service. Confused? me too. I think we have about seven different rates within our local. Some by equipment size and tonnage, others geographic.

    Due ot this, I make a point to only hire BTJ or MESJ guys, since its all the same rate and package. Rather than have one guy who is limited to say package rooftops, I get a guy who can work on anything and pay for it.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,407
    Here MES are mostly non-union guys that got a job with a signatory shop before joining the union.

    here our benefits package for BTJ only.



    WAGES

    $31.00 Base rate/per hour

    FOREMAN RATES:
    7% over base rate (2.17) Foreman rate for any job 3-7 members
    11% over base rate (3.41) Foreman rate for any job 8-14 members
    17% over base rate (5.27) General Foreman rate
    APPRENTICE WAGES:

    1st year 40% of journeymen wages ($12.40)
    2nd year 50% of journeymen wages ($15.50)
    3rd year 59% of journeymen wages ($18.29)
    4th year 66% of journeymen wages ($20.46)
    5th year 75% of journeymen wages ($23.25)

    FRINGE BENEFITS: Contributions per hour

    PENSION $8.23 Journeyman
    $8.23 starting at 2nd year Apprentice
    INSURANCE $6.93 Journeyman
    $3.47 Apprentices
    ANNUITY FUND $2.00 Journeyman
    $1.00 starting at 5th year Apprentice
    JATC FUND $ .75 Journeyman
    IAP $1.63 Journeyman
    ______
    TOTAL Benefit $19.54

    PACKAGE: $ 50.54

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Kansas City, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    13,833




    Quote Originally Posted by flange View Post
    This is another one of those adult diaper situations, depends. Depending upon how your particular local is structured is what drives it. Here, we have BTJ which is fitters, MESJ which is hightonnage service guys, and MES which is low tonnage guys. There used to be very clear defining lines, but over the years, they have become grey areas. Around here, many BTJ guys (like myself) did high tonnage service as well as pipefitting. Other MESJ guys only do high tonnage service. MES guys did service up to a certain tonnage or boiler size for example, and install of splits up to fifty tons. Those lines are now all effed up, as MESJ is becoming extinct, as are BTJ guys who do service. Confused? me too. I think we have about seven different rates within our local. Some by equipment size and tonnage, others geographic.

    Due ot this, I make a point to only hire BTJ or MESJ guys, since its all the same rate and package. Rather than have one guy who is limited to say package rooftops, I get a guy who can work on anything and pay for it.
    I WILL SELL WORK,GENERATE BUSINESS, GO GET NEW CUSTOMERS!
    YOU SHUT THE HELL UP AND QUIT RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!

  8. #21
    The terminology is all messed up. UA HVACR Service under the National agreements is Mechanical Equipment Service. It's the classification of Serviceman that everybody starts getting confused at. HVACR Service Journeyman should be gettin the mirrored package whether Local or National agreement. Most Locals package will have the HVACR Service Journeyman package equal to their Building Trades Fitters.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    We have had two distinct apprenticeships since long before the national agreemnt for service.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by maxster View Post
    638B Metel Trade (HVAC Service) NYC pension contribution... is $4.50 per hour worked.some companies pay hours for the watch coverage 10-15hrs times techs rate..union aced that for contributions.....just worked hours on watch OT..mean while they pay 2 as in "TWO" 638A fitters 8hrs minimum(double their rate) for any OT after their exhausting 7 hour day10AM...LUNCH...3PM with $11.10 per hour into the pension

    Based on the amount of bud can and joint clips I found in the ceilings on some floors of 7 world, I cannot disagree. Although I'm sure the electricians helped with both to a smaller extent.

  11. #24
    We'll call the UA Local #555 for this example. We'll say Local Union #555 is PipeFitters and HVACR only. A Building Trades RefrigerationFitter Journeyman, an HVACR Service Journeyman and a Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman should all be at the same scale, benefits and fringes. The "RefrigerationFitter" is under the Local Building Trades agreement, the "HVACR Service Tech" is under the Local HVACR Service agreement and the "MESJ" is under a National agreement of some kind. Am I making sense to any of you?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    it doesnt work like that. We have two seperate rates/benefits packages. .

  13. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by flange View Post
    it doesnt work like that. We have two seperate rates/benefits packages. .
    What are the two packages? RefrigerationFitters and HVACR Service?

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