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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    BTJ/MESJ and MES

  2. #28
    Are all three of those Local classifications? In my Local, BTJ-RefrigerationFitter and HVACR STJare mirrored in wage, benefits and fringes. There's no MESJ in the local agreement. Here's a bit of confusion, the MEServiceman is both a Local and National classification. MESS is usually what they refer to when speaking of the National one. The Local MEServiceman has the same benefits and fringes as the ST-Journeyman, his wage is scaled down to 80%. The National MEServiceman has scaled down wages, benefits and fringes. In my Local Union, it's better to be a Local MES than a National MES.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    BTJ/MESJ gate same rate and bennies. MESJ i considered a high tonnage guy. BTJ is pipefitter, mes is low tonnage guy. mes is lower rate, but gets trucks etc. MESJ typically gets trucks and better rate, but fewer positions.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,433
    Found out the international pension sucks big time, the pay off is somewhere around $45 per vested year, according to the source the whole plan is bankrupted and the UA sent a letter last year to all MES telling them not to expect anything out their pension plan.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    unlikely that it is bankrupt. it is probably underfunded, as are most due to the economy these days. what tihs means is that it has to plan to get the reserves back up. once the economy starts moving again, it will be just fine, like most pension plans. There are certain guidleines with respect to funding levels mandated by erisa. This is true of all multiemployer defined benefit plans.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Kansas City, Kansas, United States
    Posts
    13,833
    this is not accurate.
    not the correct forum but I have all those numbers. let's just say that is inaccurate.








    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Found out the international pension sucks big time, the pay off is somewhere around $45 per vested year, according to the source the whole plan is bankrupted and the UA sent a letter last year to all MES telling them not to expect anything out their pension plan.
    I WILL SELL WORK,GENERATE BUSINESS, GO GET NEW CUSTOMERS!
    YOU SHUT THE HELL UP AND QUIT RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    51
    Local 597 never had a MES designation. No Formal Apprenticeship for HVAC only construction.They used the "C" card (appliance Journeyman) and "B" card (Metal Trades Journeyman for classification. Training at night Contractor decided when you could move up unless you had about 10 years and a sympathetic BA. Good thing was same benifits were paid in as BTJ and same pension credits.C and B not recognized by Chicago Building Trades so if you were on a prevailing wage job you got "A" BTJ scale. 2005 a Full time HVAC instructor who served a formal construction Apprenticeship but workin Service his whole Career was assigned task of starting Apprenticeship. Instructor went to (420)Philly and (601) Milwaukee talked to 638 New York and recommended same pay structure and no MES bull**** card. Things went well Contractors not happy because they could not hold guys back any more. They also refused to write up bad reports JATC could dismiss poor performing Apprentices. Just short time them or let them be another Contractors headache. Instructor tried to phase out C & B card program but Contractors still wanted a place to land their Sons/Nephews/customers kid who could not pass Apprenticeship Apptitude test and other requirements. 2011 a desision was made to have HVAC Apprentices come out at the B card scale Construction Apprentices came out at BTJ A card scale. HVAC Instructor called bull**** on that and quit.
    When announced at Union Meeting not a whimper because out of 400 members at that meeting maybe 10 were Service. U.A. HVAC/R Members its your own fault go to the meetings. How can anyone justify
    screwing a 2" gas linetogether with a partner is worth a higher pay scale than repairing a roof top by your self? Two classifications of Pipe Fitter Apprentice & Journeyman thats all there should be. That Instructor? Me; Bill Wren card #1086380

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    51
    Local 597 never had a MES designation. No Formal Apprenticeship for HVAC only construction.They used the "C" card (appliance Journeyman) and "B" card (Metal Trades Journeyman for classification. Training at night Contractor decided when you could move up unless you had about 10 years and a sympathetic BA. Good thing was same benifits were paid in as BTJ and same pension credits.C and B not recognized by Chicago Building Trades so if you were on a prevailing wage job you got "A" BTJ scale. 2005 a Full time HVAC instructor who served a formal construction Apprenticeship but workin Service his whole Career was assigned task of starting Apprenticeship. Instructor went to (420)Philly and (601) Milwaukee talked to 638 New York and recommended same pay structure and no MES bull**** card. Things went well Contractors not happy because they could not hold guys back any more. They also refused to write up bad reports JATC could dismiss poor performing Apprentices. Just short time them or let them be another Contractors headache. Instructor tried to phase out C & B card program but Contractors still wanted a place to land their Sons/Nephews/customers kid who could not pass Apprenticeship Apptitude test and other requirements. 2011 a desision was made to have HVAC Apprentices come out at the B card scale Construction Apprentices came out at BTJ A card scale. HVAC Instructor called bull**** on that and quit.
    When announced at Union Meeting not a whimper because out of 400 members at that meeting maybe 10 were Service. U.A. HVAC/R Members its your own fault go to the meetings. How can anyone justify
    screwing a 2" gas linetogether with a partner is worth a higher pay scale than repairing a roof top by your self? Two classifications of Pipe Fitter Apprentice & Journeyman thats all there should be. That Instructor? Me; Bill Wren card #1086380

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,887
    All I know is,when I see the first check I am going to kiss the ground!

  10. #36
    I just found out the Local which I'm a travel card in, doesn't participate in the National pension. They have an HRA contribution which has to do with H&W, but is not the actual H&W. They have a Defined Benefit Plan that takes the place of the National pension. They also have a Defined Contribution Plan. Also this same Local isn't part of any Pipe Trades District Council. Is anybody in a similar Local??

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,433
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    I just found out the Local which I'm a travel card in, doesn't participate in the National pension. They have an HRA contribution which has to do with H&W, but is not the actual H&W. They have a Defined Benefit Plan that takes the place of the National pension. They also have a Defined Contribution Plan. Also this same Local isn't part of any Pipe Trades District Council. Is anybody in a similar Local??
    My local operates that way, we are not part of the national pension plan. 3 years ago our retirement plan was paying $145 per vested year, that was for the pension only, the annuity adds another chunk of $$$$ on top,brothers went home making $5k/month fully retired at 55. now our plan is down to $90 per vested year plus annuity.
    Wonder what national UA plan is paying, last I heard was $45 per year.

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