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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
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    10,026
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I do not see any difference between uncivilized violence and civilized violence. Just all Violence to me.

    We also have violence, always going to be some.

    Great hunting in NZ (no snakes), bring the beers, everthing has a cost!
    I am seeing a distinction between 'civilized' and uncivilized' violence. Of course we are just inventing the terminology as a course of the conversation. The terms are probably bad but I cannot think of better ones. Everywhere is criminal violence agreed. But in the muslim lands they have governments, religious institutions and popular associations that promote violence. It is not a fringe element, it is main-stream. It is not shunned, it is celebrated.

    There are always shades of grey, but the difference is pretty obvious.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,180

    Cool

    Our reason for being there was the Al Quaida training camps. We know the lay of the land and the people fairly well now. Pull out the major troops but leave recon teams, drones, and satellites. That will draw the rats out. When they set up camp again, call in an air strike and level the camp. Bait them with suitable campsites and resources.

    As stated, this is not a country in our paradigm as there is no central functioning government in control. It is a territory invested with dung beetles, each proud and protective of his own ball of dung. Another armpit of the world much like Haiti. Pull the chain and flush.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    806
    My son is on his second tour in that s*****le. With the new rules of engagement, they have to be fired at and feel their life is in danger before they can return fire. If receiving fire and the "enemy combatant" flees into a home they cannot fire into the home for fear of civilian casualties.

    Have photos of my son standing in fields of poppys at far as you can see. He even has photos of theopium harvest. They were under orders to leave the poppy fields alone.

    Lots of corruption also...he says its almost as bad as Washington DC.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,777
    Opium has been Afghanastans economy since before recorded history..... thats why they leave it alone.

    There is nothing else there....

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by texas cooler View Post
    My son is on his second tour in that s*****le.
    A very good friend of mine's son-in-law lost his leg from an IED on his second day there. It really is time to get out and leave them all to their own devices, you just can't help people who won't help themselves...

    Sorry all, just distressed about the whole mess...

    Cooler... hope your son gets home OK and never has to go back...

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,185
    How about this for a solution!
    You got rid of bin laden.
    So pull out.
    Set an official "fair trade" supply chain, of afgan products (big demand in the states)
    Leave them to live they want. (mud huts, bowing in which ever direction they want)
    it gets rid of the US gangs. (less policing costs)
    Tax the in coming products. (more federal income, reducing deficit)

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,026
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    How about this for a solution!
    You got rid of bin laden.
    So pull out.
    Set an official "fair trade" supply chain, of afgan products (big demand in the states)
    Leave them to live they want. (mud huts, bowing in which ever direction they want)
    it gets rid of the US gangs. (less policing costs)
    Tax the in coming products. (more federal income, reducing deficit)
    One possible glitch with your plan:

    What afgan products are in big demand in the USA?
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,185
    made from poppies!
    Total illegal drug trade in US $400 Billion, (sorry can not break down drug by drug)
    So back to afgan,
    a bit of capitalism
    a bit socialism
    a bit freedom
    a bit protectionism
    a bit of control

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    How about this for a solution!
    You got rid of bin laden.
    So pull out.
    Set an official "fair trade" supply chain, of afgan products (big demand in the states)
    Leave them to live they want. (mud huts, bowing in which ever direction they want)
    it gets rid of the US gangs. (less policing costs)
    Tax the in coming products. (more federal income, reducing deficit)
    Your perception of what is right and what is wrong seems to me to be a bit flawed.

    I'm sure substance abuse is as big a problem in New Zealand as it is here, so what's really needed are suggestions that may actually work.

    Burning up poppy fields and thus depriving those poor (and I mean poor) farmers of their only source of income to feed their families is not going to eliminate the problem, it will just shift somewhere else.

    The complexities of modern living, the opportunities for big money, and nada nada nada (a litany of causes/excuses/remedies/solutions) will be with us (humanity) forever. All we can do is to try to minimize this stuff, we'll never eliminate it, we have to try to make sure that "nasties" can't access the money though, and that's where I think we should put more resources into (the MONEY!).

    All financial transactions CAN presently be tracked, so why are there not international standards requiring ALL financial transactions to be stored, tracked and SHARED worldwide?

    Without funding, no group has much hope of effectively influencing anything or gaining much support. Cut off the money, and (in my opinion) you'll likely eliminate most of the problem.

    Go figure...

    Another from me...

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,185
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    Your perception of what is right and what is wrong seems to me to be a bit flawed.

    I'm sure substance abuse is as big a problem in New Zealand as it is here, so what's really needed are suggestions that may actually work.

    Burning up poppy fields and thus depriving those poor (and I mean poor) farmers of their only source of income to feed their families is not going to eliminate the problem, it will just shift somewhere else.

    The complexities of modern living, the opportunities for big money, and nada nada nada (a litany of causes/excuses/remedies/solutions) will be with us (humanity) forever. All we can do is to try to minimize this stuff, we'll never eliminate it, we have to try to make sure that "nasties" can't access the money though, and that's where I think we should put more resources into (the MONEY!).

    All financial transactions CAN presently be tracked, so why are there not international standards requiring ALL financial transactions to be stored, tracked and SHARED worldwide?

    Without funding, no group has much hope of effectively influencing anything or gaining much support. Cut off the money, and (in my opinion) you'll likely eliminate most of the problem.

    Go figure...

    Another from me...
    It was not meant as a serious solution, but saying that how many boxes does it tick (all individually)
    As far drugs go, unless we reduce the demand, supply will continue. (but we digress)

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    It was not meant as a serious solution, but saying that how many boxes does it tick (all individually)
    As far drugs go, unless we reduce the demand, supply will continue. (but we digress)
    A serious solution requires a serious response, and so far in our modern post cold war world, no one has come up with it, but I personally believe it is all about money. When you cut that off, then you can start...

    The Somali pirates and the "Shining Light" groups are good examples of those who want/need money. Track the money and you'll demolish them...

    Just some old fart's opinion...
    Last edited by enb54; 02-26-2012 at 03:45 AM. Reason: :(

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
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    2,185
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    A serious solution requires a serious response, and so far in our modern post cold war world, no one has come up with it, but I personally believe it is all about money. When you cut that off, then you can start...

    The Somali pirates and the "Shining Light" groups are good examples of those who want/need money. Track the money and you'll demolish them...

    Just some old fart's opinion...
    If all transactions were electronic then your system would have chance, but following the cash is always a problem.
    Present Policing of the drug industry, does not seem to work. I do not think that looking at other approaches should be discounted, including legalization and increased education.
    The drug the scares me the most is "P" "meth amphetamine".

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    If all transactions were electronic then your system would have chance, but following the cash is always a problem.
    Present Policing of the drug industry, does not seem to work. I do not think that looking at other approaches should be discounted, including legalization and increased education.
    The drug the scares me the most is "P" "meth amphetamine".
    YES!

    However, quite a bit of this drug/arms/slave trafficking/manufacturing could be controlled if only governments would co-operate. The fact that world governments don't want to co-operatively regulate/track financial transactions electronically (because of whatever political reasons) is perhaps the main root cause/result of these terrible problems. Of course, some governments don't want this scrutiny, because there might be other problems...

    War costs money, and who profits? Just another useless thought... Follow the money... That's where the answers are!

    Can you imagine opium dealers sending money to some oil company or hotel chain? Right now we can track those transactions, but not publicize ("Swiss Banks" ring a bell?) so we the taxpayer just sit back and bear it (all countries, not just mine).

    This in our modern world is just wrong... (in my own opinion)...
    Last edited by enb54; 02-26-2012 at 04:29 AM. Reason: War

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