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  1. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    18,047
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  2. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    We are the monster we warn our children about.
    There's no doubt that western governments and businesses have dabbled with supporting various groups for our own ends at times, but that does not equate to being wrong and evil all the time. These extremist groups have always had their own agenda, and I'm sure our governments were aware of that, just that other goals were more important at the time (like minimizing the Soviet Union's power and influence).

    I equate this to war, anyone who really knows, knows that war is dirty and nasty, nothing like the movieland portrayals, it is kill or be killed, your buddies come first, there's not much about glorified idealism. The mistakes, maimed and killed participants and innocent civilians, and the general brutality are largely unacknowledged publicly, but we carry on anyway.

    The no BS answer to all of this crap is to look at what Osama's ultimate fate was, and by extension you can predict the future of his followers if they continue on their present paths. We can't force barbarians to act properly, but we do have the means and methods to slap them as hard as needed when they step out of line.

    Maybe that's arrogant, but nowhere in history have the majority of citizens been so free and happy as they are in today's western democracies. These new religion based radical states are eventually going to realize (they haven't yet) that when they step over the line (and they will) that they will become tribal entities again.

    There is no answer, there will always be "us" vs "them", it has been that way forever, and unfortunately since we humans are pretty protective and greedy, there does not appear to be any end in sight...

    Just a part of my version of the truth...

  3. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    179
    I was in Afghan from april '10-11, things seemed to be heading in the right direction but all these news headlines lately puts such a damper on it. Its a shame because there is alot more good going on there than bad and the media chooses to report on the bad.

  4. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,245
    Quote Originally Posted by enb54 View Post
    Actually I was questioning your belief in Tarpley and his convictions. You responded, but not about Tarpley, who is about as Western anti-establishment as they get (from what I can see). Mostly, the mainstream media likely has conspired to keep him from disseminating his ideas to the people, that's probably why very few are subscribing...

    The man has educational credentials and has published, but the non extremists in life (right, middle and left) don't seem to be buying his version of the facts.

    That's the problem with facts... I can really believe that certain information from certain sources are facts, and you can just say that no, those are not facts, just suppositions and hearsay, HERE are the REAL facts!

    We in western society rely on generally accepted information from a broad base of sources, including verified documentation, verified photographs/video and verified human interviews... all independently verified. Sorry to use that word "verified" so much, but that's just what is required for what most of us generally call "the truth".

    Sadly, some governments have throughout known history neglected the verifiable truth and acted unilaterally on very flimsy evidence, much to their and their citizens' regret.

    As far as me being able to disprove anything, that smacks of French Civil Law, where you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. Luckily, most of our western democracies jurisprudence is based on English Civil Law, where you are innocent until proved guilty.

    The ease of access to information these days allows many thinking people to more accurately assess what is right and what is wrong with whatever is being served up by who or whatever. As always, some will check, some will procrastinate... that's our society, right or wrong.

    Also don't believe everything my government tells me is absolutely true, but also don't believe that we, our institutions and businesses are inherently evil.

    Those people who are railing against us right now have deliberately forgotten what we saved them from, and believing fundamentalist propaganda, are going to get themselves something far more evil...

    Just my worth, not trying to be nasty (except to those desecrators of the Allied WWII graves...)

    PS... It's "Alfred E. NEU...."
    I see what you're saying. But what I'm sayin is that what Tarpley says about say, Libya is absolutely true, no denying it. The hijacked government is not your friend, patriotism is not going along with foreign policy of said hijacked government.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

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