Time to pull out of Afgan and just level the place as needed

[glennac]

An Afgan soldier kills two American soldiers and wounds others protesting the accidental burning of their evil book the Koran. I say we leave and just keep bombing them as needed to keep the terrorists in check and when the Afgans get tired of it then maybe they can stop supporting them or just let them die until they figure it out. Thank you very much

Campaigning in Washington state, Gingrich said Afghan President Hamid Karzi owes the U.S. an apology for the shootings.
"There seems to be nothing that radical Islamists can do to get Barack Obama's attention in a negative way and he is consistently apologizing to people who do not deserve the apology of the president of the United States period," Gingrich said.
"And, candidly, if Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan, doesn't feel like apologizing then we should say good bye and good luck, we don't need to be here risking our lives and wasting our money on somebody who doesn't care."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...02-23-17-47-58

[newoldtech]

Yea, I dont get alot of it either. Afganistan was directly responsible for blowing up part of our country. We should of just kept dropping bombs on them until they said uncle. War is hell. When did it become about strategic strikes, apologising for a wayward bullet, collateral damage etc etc.? Thers no such thing as declaring half war. We either declare war and mean it or we should stay home. These bastards attacked us first and we should use all we have to finish it. As I stated in my thread running at this time, I dont think we should have our military involved as much as it is but If we make the decision to use our military then we should USE it. Moreover our enemies would do anything they could to kill every man woman and child in America but yet we worry about hurting their feelings.

[scrogdog]

We were not attacked by the government of Afghanistan.

We are not currently at war with the government of Afghanistan.

However, I do think we misjudged what we can get done in that country.

One reason is that it's not really a country in the first place. There are no civic or official records of any kind. Not only does that mean no birth certificates or other records of citizenship, it also means you can't own stuff because there are no deeds. There is also very little infrastructure and no financial institutions whatsoever.

It's hard to get people to act like citizens when there really isn't such a thing as an Afghani citizen.

On the other hand, Iraq was one of the more "civilized" of the Arab nations going in. Some if the highest levels of health care and education in the Arab world.

Making something out of Afghanistan is going to be night and day different than Iraq. And it will take a LONG ass time.

[newoldtech]

[QUOTE=scrogdog;12552431]We were not attacked by the government of Afghanistan.QUOTE]




You dont think that the Taliban was in cahoots with al-Qaeda on 9/11?

We demanded that the Taliban give up al-Qaeda after 9/11. Their response was that "al-Qaeda was their guests and they couldn't help us". For all intents and purposes as I see it, we certainly were at least in part attacked by the Afghanistan government.

[scrogdog]

I have no doubt that there was collusion between the two parties. But the Taliban are not the Afghani government. Even so, I do not believe the Afghani government to be innocent little kids either.

Declaring war on the Afghani government would have been done without a proper casus belli as we would have needed to demonstrate such a relationship before declaration.

To be blunt, I think Washington is well aware of the situation and even after Bin Laden was found internally in Pakistan such charges were still not levied against them either.

I suppose one could reason that it would have been counter-productive to do so. As noted, there isn't much of a country there in the first place and certainly their ability to deal with the Taliban or any extremist group for that matter on their own was close to non-existent.

[tunnel_rat]

But they sure act like little kids throwing whiney tantrums all the time. Oh, you burned some books....WAH!!!...Oh, a cartoon of Mohammmad....WAH!!!...Oh, you write a book I don't like...WAH!! off with your head. Perhaps it's time they got a good 5000lb. spanking.

[newoldtech]

But the Taliban are not the Afghani government.
.

I'm still not sure what you are basing this on. From everything that I know about it, the Taliban was the government and thats who we tried negoitating with after 9/11. Sure the country has always been somewhat fractioned by warlords. But the Taliban was the major ruler in the country before we ousted them after 9/11. Just like Karzai is the major ruler today.

[scrogdog]

The Taliban Emirate was considered an occupying force officially. It was never officially recognized as the legal government of Afghanistan to the best of my knowledge as that generally involves diplomacy and ambassadors.

They were no more the official government of Afghanistan than the Nazi's were the officially recognized government of France in 1942.

Were both of the aforementioned parties in power? Yes.

Call it semantics if you like. Yes the Taliban were in power and yes we negotiated with them.

Think of it like this; is there an officially recognized government of Somalia? Nope. You do have several self declared groups in power, but none officially recognized. In fact, there would be no way to declare a war on the government of Somalia. There is no central government.

Even in their heyday the Taliban did not control the whole of Afghanistan.

So we went to war against the Taliban and then formed a central government that was officially recognized. It would seem sort of weird to declare war against the government that we ourselves appointed.

[glennac]

..........................................So we went to war against the Taliban and then formed a central government that was officially recognized. It would seem sort of weird to declare war against the government that we ourselves appointed.

First we did not appoint that government. It was elected. And what is weird is that this "government" doesn't appreciate anything we do to put down the terrorists.

They free the terrorist we capture, Afghan President Hamid Karzi attacks the US every time an Afgan is killed as collateral damage when Americans are getting killed by terrorists dressed as civilians. No one morns American soldiers dying while helping Afgans.

The "government" is effectively anti American and we owe them nothing. Afghanistan wants NATO to put those responsible for the book burning on public trial. They owe us everything and yet they hate us. I say enough is enough. Just pull out and bomb targets as necessary if they allow the terrorist to attack us again. Thank you, thank you very much

[LibertyTree]

[QUOTE=newoldtech;12554421]

We were not attacked by the government of Afghanistan.QUOTE]

You dont think that the Taliban was in cahoots with al-Qaeda on 9/11?

We demanded that the Taliban give up al-Qaeda after 9/11. Their response was that "al-Qaeda was their guests and they couldn't help us". For all intents and purposes as I see it, we certainly were at least in part attacked by the Afghanistan government.

The CIA is in cahoots with Al Qaeda

[glennac]

The CIA is in cahoots with Al Qaeda

Really tree you need to get a life. The CIA has been dedicated to neutralizing if not destroying our enemies. You are way out there in outer orbit. Too far out to come in for a safe landing on earth. I hope you find your way home some day to to the land of the sane. Thank you very much

[newoldtech]

From what I've read LT believes we took down our own towers. Most cant understand how an otherwise seemingly smart person would think that, but who knows?

[scrogdog]

First we did not appoint that government. It was elected. And what is weird is that this "government" doesn't appreciate anything we do to put down the terrorists.

They free the terrorist we capture, Afghan President Hamid Karzi attacks the US every time an Afgan is killed as collateral damage when Americans are getting killed by terrorists dressed as civilians. No one morns American soldiers dying while helping Afgans.

The "government" is effectively anti American and we owe them nothing. Afghanistan wants NATO to put those responsible for the book burning on public trial. They owe us everything and yet they hate us. I say enough is enough. Just pull out and bomb targets as necessary if they allow the terrorist to attack us again. Thank you, thank you very much

Karzai was appointed in 2002 by mandate and then served a two year term as Interim President and then after that was re-elected for two additional terms (so far).

He is largely a prisoner president. On one side he needs US support, on the other there is nothing he can do at this time about his largely reactionary population who, let's not forget, are also largely uneducated and somewhat beholden to the still powerful Taliban.

Again, this ain't Iraq. Not even close.